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[00:00:00] All right, you guys, this is a huge deal. I am interviewing someone I have dreamed of chatting with on this podcast for the first time. And her name is Kristen boss, but you probably already know who she is because she is one of the top coaches in the entire industry of network marketing, social selling.
And she has been such a blessing to my business and thousands of others. And so, Kristen, thank you so much for being here today. [00:01:00] Thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited to have this conversation and be here with you. And yeah, I think we're going to have fun. Oh yeah, we've got lots to talk about because the industry is in a bit of turmoil with transitioning from the company that I've been a part of, Seint,~ um,~ Rodin and Fields.
But also I think a lot of it's tied to the transition of trying to navigate the balance. of network marketing and social selling and how to marry both, you know, both of the models together in a way that can best fit the most people. So I would definitely want to talk more about that as we go in this podcast, but I'd love to start with,~ uh, ~the thing I've been dying to ask you is for you to share your story.
Cause you've served so many through the The principles and [00:02:00] systems and all of the things that you teach, and I know you share snippets, but I wanted to kind of give you the floor to be able to just share how it all started, like your journey in network marketing and how the heck you got into all this.
~Uh,~ yeah. How the heck I got into all this? ~Uh, ~so I was a former,~ uh,~ hairstylist in Los Angeles. I was on, I was doing a celebrity hair and the Hollywood scene was my scene for a while. And, ~uh,~ the first network marketing business I came across was when I was a young, ~uh,~ baby hairstylist in LA. And this was before, like before, Social sellers were even using Facebook.
I remember like having the pink slip and manually writing down the credit cards and having like, like papers in the back of my trunk. And nobody should have trusted me with that. Like having credit cards floating around in my trunk, like absolutely not. I think that was not like I was 21. What was I doing?
So at that time, like that was my first introduction, but I was like, nah, this isn't for me. Then I found it again, ~uh,~ in 20, ~um,~ 2013. Actually it was 20, yeah, 2013. I had just moved to Colorado with my [00:03:00] husband and when you're a hairstylist, you have to start over and you, you don't get to take your clients with you.
So you, I was having to rebuild my client or rebuild my client base. And, ~um,~ I went to a hair show and there's this booth next to me and these girls were sharing their products and. I don't want to give away what company it was, but one girl was like, Oh, I'll wrap you and you're going to look skinnier. I was like, what?
So I like went in the bathroom and like, you know, did the whole wrap thing. And I was like, wrap people in saran wrap. And they look skinnier. Give me this. I'll make all kinds of money. So, but my only motivation at the time was I had to like come up with like, I think a 500 income gap. And at the time to fill that in, I was working, ~uh, ~at a local coffee shop and I was like steaming milk for minimum wage.
And I was like going from like celebrity stylist to like steaming milk for minimum wage. I was like, Oh heck no, the same for me. I got to get out of this. So I was like, fine. So I was like driving around town, wrapping everybody I knew. Like, I felt like, I felt like a, a dealer. [00:04:00] And so I was like getting all the cash.
And finally I was like able to,~ uh, ~leave the coffee shop job, but it's still like, wasn't, it wasn't a great fit. I didn't really catch the vision. I was like, whatever. ~Um, ~and I always say like, there's, there's seasons and reasons to join this business model. So I had a reason at the time, but if our reason isn't strong enough, like as soon as we meet the reason, We might.
leave the model. And so for me, I was like, once I built up my client base, I was like, great. I don't need this anymore. I really didn't love it. Didn't love the culture. I don't think I'd caught the vision. I just saw it as like a short, short way out. ~Um, ~but it's funny. Cause some of my friends from back then still remember that they're like, we remember when you're going around town.
So, um, so then, ~uh,~ I think it was like when my, when, ~um,~ and, and I had people constantly asking me because I was just always on social media. I loved social media. I was a hairstylist. I was building a client based on, ~uh, ~on social media. Before that even became a thing, ~um, ~and being a business owner, I had an online clothing boutique, so I understood sales marketing, ~um, ~I went to school [00:05:00] for business.
And so for me, it was just, it all made sense. ~Um, ~I also, ~um,~ and big into psychology and human behavior. And so for me, marketing and selling always made sense at the psychological level. ~Um,~ so I'm like, and when you're a hairstylist, we joke that you're just an,~ uh,~ underpaid life coach or a therapist, because like you literally, you understand how people think when you listen to people for 15 years, ~uh, ~their pains, their desires and those things.
So, ~uh,~ eventually I remember one day looking around my salon and seeing people like, Yeah. In their forties and fifties, needing shoulder replacements and their bodies were falling apart, being behind the chairs like I, Oh no, this is bad. I don't want to be here. My husband was also, ~um,~ working in the church.
~Um, ~and we all know you don't make money in ministry. ~Uh, ~so he was kind of in that, ~uh,~ we joke about this now because I think it can be over glorified, like the noble profession of ministry. And I have thoughts on that. ~Um, ~and maybe even thoughts on the poverty gospel, ~uh,~ that sometimes we think. Thoughts about money.
That's another story for another day. ~Um, ~but yeah, he was in ministry and because of that, ~uh,~ I was working all the time. So for the first seven years of my marriage, my husband and I [00:06:00] didn't have a day off together at all. We were ships passing in the night. ~Um, ~we were, it felt like we were roommates, but that's kind of where we had to be for that season.
~Um, ~and so. I started, I, you know, was not feeling well. I had horrible postpartum depression and anxiety. Friend introduced me to supplements and I was like, Oh, I feel really great. ~Um, ~I started telling people, I was like, this helps me feel better. And then I saw a 25 payment come in the mail. I was like, wait, hold up, hold up, hold up.
I can just talk about this and money shows up. I could do something with this. And I finally saw the exit to how I would get out from behind the chair, ~um, ~trading my time for money, only making money when people were behind the chair. And I, and, and I thought maybe I'll be a hairstylist educator. Maybe I'll be a business coach.
And I was doing business coaching because people were calling me and being like, how do I set this up? I had an online clothing boutique. So I was always kind of a serial multi passionate entrepreneur. ~Um, ~So I was in the network marketing space for a while, had success. It was great. However, this was in, I'm going to call it the height of the girl boss babe era with the, the Rachel [00:07:00] Hollis era.
And so this was like the sleep when you're dead, rise and grind. ~Um, ~and the only way you were taught to grow on social with network marketing at that time was it was a numbers game and just keep sending messages to strangers. Well, I was somebody. That had, I'm, I'm very savvy. I'm very good online. So it worked for me, but everyone that I brought on, it didn't work for them because they didn't know how to have influence.
They didn't know how to work the social media game. And so, ~um, ~essentially I hit massive burnout and I was like, I don't want to be in this industry. Like how they teach this because there was there was no me teaching a different way It was just this one way and I was like this doesn't work for everybody.
How is this duplicatable? How does this make sense not everybody that comes on is gonna feel good about messaging like I remember at one point Oh, I'm so embarrassed of this, but maybe people have done this. I remember at one point pulling out my high school yearbook my yearbook I'm messaging every single person in my yearbook.
I was that person. [00:08:00] I'm, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, people. I'm like, I know they're not listening to this podcast, but I just want to put it out into the universe. I'm sorry. I was that cringy girl. ~Um, ~but I was also a very desperate girl. ~Um, ~just, just like, I can have a lot of compassion for that version of me and be like, she's just trying to survive in a really hard season.
~Um, ~and I have a lot of compassion therefore for what I see people going through right now. ~Um, ~So I was like, I'm leaving the industry and then I was doing business coaching for a ball, these other things. And here's, here's the thing that's fascinating is what you're seeing in the network marketing space.
And this is kind of how it all ties together. ~Um, ~and with social selling and social media is it's more commonplace now, but you probably hear things like you need to have a hook, a strong caption. You need to have like a pain point desire that used to only be taught. With paid ads with companies who were scaling behind Facebook and meta advertising.
And that was like the glory days, 2016 to 2021. ~Um, ~those were kind of glory days for social selling in a certain way and glory days for people that were doing meta advertising. They [00:09:00] were able to essentially put money into Facebook ads and it turned into an ATM machine. ~Um, ~so I took all those principles with paid advertising and I was like, and I was like, I was learning about.
funnels and email automations and lead generation and freebies and opt ins and webinars and how to nurture capture a cold lead turnip. So I was like, why is none of this taught to network marketers? Why are we only taught how to just message somebody and then keep messaging them until they either ghost us or block us?
Or we get a yes. Like, why is this the only solution that's taught? So, ~um, ~But still, I was like, I'm not going to come back to this industry because I don't, I don't like it. Don't like how it's done. ~Um,~ if I'm going to be really honest and candid with you, I was like, there's just a bunch of mean girls with paychecks over there.
And there's a lot of mean girl culture. ~Um, ~I don't like, I don't like the culture behind it. I don't want it. ~Um, ~but I saw the problem. I saw the gap. I was like, well, no one's teaching network marketers, these skills that's taught in other, like in marketing circles and with email campaigns, if I could teach them [00:10:00] how to do this.
From the paid level to the organic level, this could totally change the game for them. And so I started talking about that. ~Uh, ~and who came to find me and I just wanted to help anybody in the online space. I was helping people for free. I was like, and I was already coaching people and who was finding me was network marketers.
They're like, Oh, can you help me with this? I'm like, yes, yes, I can help you. So I'm like helping them reluctantly. I'm being like, yeah, but I don't want to coach this industry. I like. I just didn't want to. ~Um, ~and so I, I had a God moment.~ Um, ~and ~um, ~I was like, I, I remember, I'll never forget. I had a glossy stack of papers where I was actually going to go and do, ~um,~ business education for hairstylists.
And I had this promo folder. I was going to go all around my city. I was going to pitch my services to hairstylists and I could not get out the door. I was so sick to my stomach, holding the stack of papers. And, ~um,~ I heard God say, wrong move, wrong people, wrong audience. And I was like, but I'm a hairstylist of 15 years.
He's like, I've already, [00:11:00] I've already given you evidence of where I want you. And I was like, yeah, but why me? Like, he's like, I didn't, I didn't really get an answer. I just got a, that's where you're going. Kind of like, ~uh, ~what is it like Jonah go over there? I don't want to, I don't like them. God's like, great, try and run from this and watch what happens.
And I did for a while, I was like coaching anybody, but network marketers, but they kept finding me. And I was like, all right, maybe God has something here. ~Um, ~and so, you know, For lack of better terms, I just, once I decided to lean in, I'm like, all right, God, if this is the industry you want me to serve, then you're going to, I did, I did something radical.
I prayed for,~ um, ~and I would encourage anybody in the audience to do this. If you've never prayed a prayer like this,~ um,~ I, I asked for.~ Um,~ what did I ask for? I asked for radical favor. I asked for favor in the industry. I was like, God, if you can just give me favor in a way that doesn't make sense to anybody else, then I'll know it's you.
And that has been the story of my entire business. Like just. I feel like I was given favor, [00:12:00] supernatural favor. ~Um, ~and so yeah, and then I started coaching network marketers and I was like, then I was like, all right, I'll never forget is when I made to actually commit fully to network marketers and not coach other industries, because what was happening was I had built two really successful coaching businesses.
I was helping Top earners and network marketers. And they wanted to send me their teams. But then I was also coaching like, ~um, ~you know, photographers, ~uh,~ online coaches, like name it. I was coaching them. And I knew there was a time where I was like, all right, your marketing's pretty murky right now. Cause you're helping everybody.
Who are you actually helping? And God was like, we've been over this. We've been over this. We've been over this. I'm like, fine. And so, and, and, ~uh, ~the end of, ~uh, ~no, it was like, middle of 2020 was when I decided like, all right, I'm going to actually go all in and serve network marketers exclusively in their field.
And so, and here we are, here we are. Wow. Oh my gosh. I knew I would love your story. And I didn't [00:13:00] realize how much it would actually, it was kind of similar to mine. Cause I like you, my start in the network marketing journey was looking at someone else being like, okay, wait, if she can do this, I can do this.
And then that's kind of where it started. And you know, the model of duplication started, but the fact that you, the way that. You have grown your business and man, he did it. The Lord absolutely answered that prayer. And it's been super cool to watch, ~uh, ~watch your journey and, and to know that, that truly was out of obedience for you seeking him.
And I know that that is the mission that you're on now is the exact same mission that I'm on, regardless of where the Lord takes me next in this industry is to uplift the industry because Just like you kind of mentioned money and,~ uh,~ you know, that side of everything, it's amoral. And so is business. But when you mix in people who, you know, by nature are sinful people, right?
Like we're, we're prone to temptation. We're prone to greed. We're prone to envy. We're prone to, you know, coveting all of the other things that we don't have and [00:14:00] finding our worth in. Anything but the Lord, right? Cause we, we loved. And so I can do a whole podcast on that episode. How much time we got Heather?
How much time do we have? We can talk as long as you want. And as many times as you want. Cause I, like I said, I feel like we're completely on, on that mission, but maybe like talk about that with, when it comes to money, which I know is a driving factor for a lot of people, myself included yourself included.
You had a gap to fill. In order to make an income. And again, money is amoral. It's not, it's, and we hold ourselves back so often based on our worth from actually making money to be able to make a difference in the lives of others. And so, ~um, ~I, I actually talk about money and, you know, finances and things like that quite a bit on this podcast, and I'd love to talk it more, talk about it more.
So maybe start there and share more about, Oh man. Yeah. So, ~um, ~Yeah, I think in ministry, I think we were just like, we went through a season of fundraising to where we had to, ~uh, ~essentially raise support for my husband's [00:15:00] ministry. He was in fellowship of Christian athletes and man, there's nothing more humbling than going around asking people for money.
And ~um,~ I think there's a couple things that happens with our stories around money. I think we have,~ uh, ~inherited beliefs, usually that's passed on from our parents based on how we hear them talk about money. Like money doesn't grow on trees or, ~um,~ you know, money is the root of all evil. No, it's the love of money.
That is the root of all evil. And, ~um,~ you know, hearing people maybe make snarky remarks like the top 1%, they're so selfish. They're just, you know, crushing on every like, you know, hurting everybody that gets in the way. And so you, you pick up these little cues as a, as a child and you don't think to question them.
And then that starts to shape your worldview. And then depending on where you go to church, how are they talking about, like, how are they talking about wealth? And so I was around like, you know, ~um,~ Wealth was the pursuit of anything, but God, it was kind of like there, there was like an, there was an unspoken, there wasn't a clear number, but there was somehow in my mind, I [00:16:00] got the, this in my head that there was an appropriate amount of money to make and an inappropriate.
Too much money to make. And I'll never forget, it was when we were struggling so much,~ um, ~ things were really hard. And a woman from church came in, this is while I was still doing hair, and she wrote me a, she wrote us a check for 500. to pay for our groceries. ~Uh, ~and it still gets me emotional because this was a very pivotal moment in my life.
And I said, and in that moment, when I took that check, I said, this is the last time someone's going to write me a check. I'm going to be the person that starts writing checks when someone needs their groceries paid for. And so, and she had all, she had a lot of money. She was a very wealthy woman and I experienced a blessing from her.
And so I'm like, well, what How if I'm in survival mode, how can I bless others if I'm too busy trying to fill my own stomach? ~Uh,~ and so then I thought, all right, so I knew I had to do some work around money. And what's interesting is I came from an upper middle class family. ~Um, ~but I think there was [00:17:00] maybe stories I had of like, ~uh, ~there was no generational evidence of women in my family that had made a lot of money.
~Uh, ~we, I came from a generation of like homemakers and, ~um, ~and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. But I think I always knew I was wired a little bit different. ~Um, ~and so, but I didn't have an example of like, well, where is there financially, like Successful women in my life, and I didn't know any,~ um,~ I mean, I saw them online, but they weren't really women of faith.
So like I was just dealing with a lot of contrast there. So I did this crazy thing where I was like, all right, I'm going to look for, I'm going to read everything the Bible has to say. I'm going to study the people that had wealth in the Bible. That's all I'm going to read about is the people that had wealth.
And the story that really kind of rocked me was. Funny enough was Job's story. Job, like, the wealthiest man in the world. And, we, I, I know, like, some people I like to, like, sometimes I still have to call people out on this, particularly my mother, and I love her very much. But my, my mom can sometimes live under the spirit of fear quite often, and so she'll be like, The Lord gives and the Lord takes.
[00:18:00] I'm like, why? That I think sets up the image of a parent in the sky that wants to play games with you. I'm going to give you, and then I'm going to take. And then I can never, therefore I can never trust in his generosity because what if he takes it away? And so I was living under that paralysis of like, the Lord gives and the Lord takes.
And so, and Job felt like the evidence of that. Wealthy, wealthy man, evidence of, you know, and it's just like the Lord takes, the Lord takes, but here's what's funny is at the end. God gives Job sevenfold of what Job had. He didn't say, Job, you know, you really had a life of excess before this, so I'm going to restore to you what I feel is the appropriate amount of sheep and camels and houses and staff and servants.
No, he was like, no, Job, you're faithful. I'm going to restore sevenfold. And so I just kept reading about this and I was like, okay, so what if money isn't a problem. And so, ~um, ~I made this commitment to keep going. [00:19:00] And now I will tell you, I will tell you, ~um,~ that when money started coming in quite a bit, I did have a spiritual crisis.
I had a, I had a massive, ~um,~ faith crisis. ~Uh, ~I want to say, 2021 and 2022. I almost actually walked away from my faith completely. I was probably a hair's breadth away from atheism. ~Um, ~because I'd come into a lot of money. ~Um, ~and people that knew me before that didn't know what to do with me.~ Um, ~There was, I didn't know what to do with me.
I suddenly was what I don't think I had made that level of success truly safe for me. So my nervous system was collapsing under my reality and was like, ~uh,~ I don't know what to do with this. And I, I thought money was going to make all my problems go away. And I'd never experienced more fear in my life.
Because I had more to lose.~ Um, ~and so God and I had to go on a little bit of a journey, ~um,~ with that. And so here's, but here's what I'm going to say. If someone's like, oh my gosh, so money [00:20:00] is bad. No, no, no, no. We were able to, we've been able to do really extraordinary and really, really beautiful things.
And I don't say this story to elevate me at all because I'm going to say this is, I think God had stories. God has stories for your success and your, your journey. And I want to give one picture of this and we can move to a different topic if you want. ~Um, ~there was a girl, when I first started my public speaking, I was actually speaking for mops.
And,~ uh,~ I went to this mops thing and I met this gal and her name was Sarah. And Sarah and I became fast friends. And,~ um, ~ love Sarah. But then, you know, pandemic, everything starts to change. It's been a while since I've seen Sarah, but she's like applauding me from the sidelines. She's our age. She's very young, has three kids.
And next, next thing I know, I think this was a year ago. I bump into Sarah. And she's like, Kristen, I'm like, you're doing it! You talked about it! You're doing it! You're living it! I'm so happy for you! And she [00:21:00] walks away, and my friend's like, do you know what's going on with Sarah? I said, no. And they're like, Sarah, Sarah's living on borrowed time.
She's got stage 4 breast, she's got stage 4 cancer. It's all over her body. And there's nothing they can do. And it wrecked me. It absolutely gutted me. And ~um, ~I had a moment where, and Sarah wanted to start hanging out with me, and I told God, I was like, God, I don't have the capacity. This sounds really selfish.
I don't have the capacity to be, to start a friendship with somebody that might just be gone, who's on borrowed time. And God's like, you need to befriend Sarah. I was like, okay, all right. So I'm getting to know Sarah and I'm learning that Sarah, She needs a special treatment that's going to be close to six figures, cost her close to six figures that they can't afford.
And I am wrecked. I hear this. I feel helpless. Oh my God. Why would you have me be like befriend? Why would you bring her back into my life? It feels so heavy. This is so impossible. You know, I'm a fixer. I've never felt more helpless. He's like, you need to trust. And so, ~um, ~I was like, God, I, I need [00:22:00] to give to her, but I don't have like 100 K cash personally, but I have that.
I have that. in a donor advised fund to give to charitable causes. And I'm like, God, I need to figure out how to give this in a charitable cause. But she's, she's an individual. I can't give this to an individual from our donor advised fund. And I was like, God, if you find a way, I'll do it. I'll fund it.
I'll fund her whole treatment. And sure enough. And God was like, I'm gonna find a way, but you have, let me work on her because she's too proud to ask right now. So I waited for six months. And then finally she announced, ~uh,~ at Christmas time, she announced that She had found a way to start a 501c3 to get her support ~and, um,~ and for Christmas, we got to fund her treatment.
So like all that to say it's like You being obedient in somebody's life, you could literally be saving somebody's life just by changing your story around money. And someone like, I don't know. I don't know if it's going to work. It didn't matter. I told her, I was like, you are never allowed to [00:23:00] treat me different.
~Um, ~she doesn't know this podcast. No one knows this. No one knows her. But I told her she wasn't allowed to tell anybody. It was me. And ~uh, ~and I share this just because of like, this is just how God moves. And this has nothing to do with me and everything to do with like, God gave favor over my business, and then he pointed me to Sarah, so that we can fund her treatment.
And she's finished up all of her treatments, and she, ~um, ~she has hope. So I'm, I guess the story from that is like, in your healing, you could be somebody else's hope. Like God, God working through you. ~Um, ~and so, but I wouldn't be, we wouldn't be able to fund that. Unless we had the resources to do so. So I would say, there are plenty of people in the world that have no moral compass, that don't care, ~um,~ with a lot of money.
I say if we want to change the world, why don't we give people who love the Lord, love to do good, love to make an impact, Help them make a lot of money. I want, I want the people that love Jesus to have all the money. That's what I want. Cause then we could do some things. So that's my [00:24:00] story of money.
Kristen, I knew this was going to be good. And I know anybody that's listening. I know you really haven't probably had even an opportunity to listen to my podcast, but I know everyone listening is like dying right now, hearing your heart and your soul. Story and how you point it back to the Lord so beautifully and money.
Well, all of it, right? I know that, you know, that, that any good thing, any good, any person, any friend like Sarah, any idea, any, definitely all the money it's all from him to equip us to serve other people. And I know you and I have both experienced the blessing of that within network marketing. And even though there's a lot of darkness that I know many have experienced or are experiencing right now.
We have that opportunity to be a light and we have an opportunity in God's word and through the examples of everybody from Job to, you know, David to Solomon. Oh my goodness. All of those things. We have that biblical example to live out in whatever industry. And [00:25:00] so, I mean, I I'm, I'm freaking out hearing your story.
We could keep going on that, but I do. Definitely an honor in your time. I would love with that in mind, and maybe we can skip to the transition period, because I know a lot of people are right now are making decisions motivated by money, which as we've discussed is not, you know, we have a need for money, we all have our, ~our, uh,~ you know, gaps in the checks that we need to fill specific to the transitions where people are seeking.
Do they want to stay in this business model? Do they want to stay maybe even in the company as a social seller or an affiliate, since that's an option, or,~ uh,~ you know, do they want to go to a How does that play into the advice that you would give someone as they enter into this, this season of transition?
My very first thing is do not make your decisions from the spirit of fear.~ Um, I~ don't think, I think there are money to see decisions. Yes. ~Um,~ but I'm seeing a lot of fear based decisions. ~Um,~ yeah. And I think for people of faith, ~um, ~you serve a very, [00:26:00] we serve a very big God, ~um,~ who is beyond compensation plans, who is beyond companies.
And I feel like it's really important to, to say one of the things that really irks me is when I see over spiritualized language assigned to one company or one person's path. ~Um,~ for example, like the Lord's favor is all over this company. I'm like, um, Uh, no, no, uh, no, God's bigger than that. Or it's like, I, I, like, I do think there is a way to really go before the Lord and ask, where would you want me?
Where would you have me? Where is my next place of influence? And by the way, every single person that's listening to this can ask for supernatural favor in their next venture. Like, supernatural favor is not with the company, it's over your head by your, by, by God, by the, by your Heavenly Father who loves you so much.
~Um, ~so first I think it's important to know you're going to be okay no matter where you go. [00:27:00] Why? Because you have something, ~uh, ~so much bigger at your back. Then a compensation plan for the industry. ~Um, ~so from that, I would say first find a spirit of peace. I know it's really hard to say that when it feels like, but I have bills to pay, but I have a mortgage to pay, but I'm scared.
What if, you know, what does this mean for the industry? Should I stay in this business model? ~Um, ~I'm just going to say there's hard, no matter where you go. ~Um, ~I, I'm really tired of smoke screens on social media of people not telling the whole truth of business. And so I'm kind of in like my business wokeism era being like, all right, listen, you see these people talking about like 300, 000 launches.
I'm like, We're not talking about ad spend, cost of fulfillment. What is their ongoing monthly recurring revenue? What are they paying a team? What are they paying support? Let's talk about their tax bracket. If they're smart enough to put money away for taxes. Let's talk about like all, all of these things just have me like we're, [00:28:00] and because we have social sellers that are just like, they're only.
Lens is the business model of network marketing, they don't know the right questions to ask, or they don't have the business knowledge or acumen to ask like, Oh, well, what's the cost of goods? What's my software costs? If I was to be a digital course creator, what's my software costs? Okay. Listen, anybody that's like, I want a business like Kristen's.
All right, guys, you want to pay 8, 000 a month for software technology. To support everything we need to support our students. Like no one's talking about that, but I'm like, okay, great. Go for it. Do it. And like, it just, sorry. I'm like getting all kinds of spicy about it because we have people making decisions with incomplete and inaccurate views of business.
And so I'm like, no, that wherever you go, it will be hard. Know that wherever you go, there's going to be struggle. ~Um, ~Now, in regards to your question about staying with a company, going affiliate, staying in the industry, I think there's a couple things.~ Um,~ I think we're team teams are always going to move more volume than an individual.
So we're [00:29:00] always going to have companies that, ~um, ~that focus that have a focus on team building and paying on teams. Now, I do think we're going to see more companies adapt, ~uh, ~affiliate options within their company. ~Um, ~so that it's like, Hey, and there's two ways for this. And I, I was just explaining this in one of my programs, that there's two levers to increase your paycheck in, in the online space, specific specifically in the network marketing industry.
One is leveraging the networks of others through a team. That is paycheck increase number one. Paycheck increase number two is leveraging the increasing the size of your audience to in, in your cold market to increase the number of direct consumers that buy from you. ~Um, ~now if you're able to be a boss at both, Nailing your cold market and converting them into customers and builders and then team building.
Fantastic. But the affiliate route, you just have to understand that eventually you're going to hit the law of diminishing returns as you would in network marketing. You're going to hit the threshold of the market, which means at some point [00:30:00] you're going to run out of people to talk to because everybody knows what you do and you're going to have to figure out how to grow an audience, how to grow a brand and how to talk to people no matter what.
I don't care if you're selling diapers, you have to figure it out. Okay. Or Amazon, it does not matter if so that's the affiliate route, the network marketing route. It's like you, you still kind of have to do both because eventually you're going to hit a market plateau where you're going to have to do a market transition where you realize, all right, my market, It's slowing down in its response to me, which is evidence that I actually need to expand my market.
And I either need to leverage a team better and help them expand their networks. But eventually you get to a point where like, all right, the next level of growth is I have to expand my audience. And I also have to teach my team to expand their audiences. And so I think you just have to go in with your eyes wide open.
So if you want to stay on the affiliate route, more power to you. Just know that eventually you're going to have to be very good at lead generation, growing your audience. The size of your audience [00:31:00] does absolutely impact your paycheck when you go the affiliate route. Whereas with direct sales, it's not necessarily the size of your audience.
It's the size of your network and the networks of the people under you. So you can leverage smaller networks. ~Um, ~So is, and if someone's like, well, I'm scared to stay in this industry, what if my company pulls the rug out from under me? I'd be like, great. That happens in corporate America. ~Um, ~in the, in the coaching space,~ um,~ people were printing money for a long time.
And this is, this is important and relevant because I want people to know this because they think out there, not in network marketing, they don't have to deal with some things. I'm like, oh no! Oh, no, no, no. You do. And let me tell you what they are. ~Um,~ again, wokeism. You gotta know what you're dealing with.
~Um, ~so the, the iOS software, do you remember in 2021 when the new iOS 14 software enabled you to turn off your tracking for ads? That was like a privacy setting. Okay. What you don't know is for you, you're like, great. I'm so glad to see less ads. However, the people behind, behind the ads that were funneling money, suddenly it was, it became [00:32:00] 10, actually not 10 times, a hundred times harder to find you as my ideal customer because you turned off your tracking.
So now I have to spend 10 times more money to find you. So now when it would have cost me 3 to acquire you as a customer, it's now costing me. 30. Now it's chewing up all of my profit margins. And so, and if the buyer's market is starting to shrink, we now have, we now have like our revenue is shrinking, our profit margins are shrinking and our cost of acquisition is growing.
So people don't know this. So I'm like, listen, y'all it's hard out there too. And so when that software update happened, Cost of doing business like increased exponentially to where some businesses closed their doors overnight. I had a friend that had a 35 million a year business that was going to be bought out by SlimFast.
And as soon as the software system launched, they lost half of their, their revenue overnight. And SlimFast was like, we [00:33:00] don't want you, we don't want you. You are now too risky to work with. So all that to say is like, there's risk there too. It's like, Oh, I'll just leave there. Cool. You're one software update away from potentially having to rethink your entire business model.
You are one platform away from having to reinvent your business. And to be completely honest with you, I'm rebuilding my business right now. I'm like, listen, there's a gritty season. Anybody that says like, it's easy. And I walk in the park, I'm like, blessings upon you. But yeah, right. So. That's, that's my take on like stay in the industry.
I'm like, it's going to be hard no matter where you go. But I will say this, if you know how to sell market, do content creation, have a personal brand, have an email list. You are untouchable. You're fine. And this is why I told my students, I was like, listen, I'm not losing a wink of sleep for any of my students in my programs, because I told them this, I said, listen, if network marketing was to collapse overnight, and if you were to ask me what I would change about my programs, the answer would be nothing.
I would add probably two more videos. Two more videos because when I built the program, I built it to teach [00:34:00] sustainable evergreen methods that the so that would pretty much create insurance for the social seller. despite what happened to the industry. That's good. ~Um, ~and I feel like, so my listeners know that I have been an advocate that there's a difference between network marketing and social selling.
And I even went so far as a few months ago to do a podcast on where social selling or the rise of influencers even kind of hurting network marketing. But what I love about what you just said and your perspective, and I had a feeling this would come is I think that is a little bit tied to my lens with social media, which.
Bob Heilig, when I interviewed him a few weeks ago, reminded me social media is also a moral, right? It is a marketing tool. And so what I love about what you just said, ~um,~ and, and the impact that it had on me personally, that I know will resonate with, with my listeners is that it's not either, or it's both.
And if you love network marketing, looking to the principles that have duplication, right? Simplification, duplication. I feel like if you can nail those two things, You [00:35:00] can be successful in this business, but then also leveraging who the Lord made you to be your, your, yourself, your, the things that light you up and, you know, leveraging the tools and wisdom that you, that are business principles to.
Build that online. And so I need to think and, you know, kind of marinate on this a little bit, but instead of it being either, or it definitely seems like both and is the approach that makes sense for people who do choose to stay in the network marketing industry, rather than hop to affiliate or honestly, it probably is the same for, ~uh,~ for businesses connection and.
Like a deeper relationship with your customers. And then the ability of you being transparent about, you know, what you believe in all of those things with, with your customers, that's always going to build trust. Right. But then, ~um,~ that is hard to do in mass. So where it's like, you know, trying to find the balance of, of what that looks like.
And I do know above all the person who can guide us in that, and that is the Lord. And ~so, um, you know, ~I feel like listening to him for those [00:36:00] inspirations, right? Like whether it's a piece of social media content or whether it's taking a break or a breather from social media. If it is burning you out or stressing you out, but I know I myself can even want to paint something like social media as the enemy.
And that's, that's not, that's not our enemy. It can be all, it's a mission field if you let it be, that's so, you know, I know, do you know that? Do you know that one of the last things that, ~uh, ~Billy Graham said to John Maxwell, ~uh, ~Billy Graham told John Maxwell, he said, I believe the next great, ~uh,~ revival will happen in the marketplace.
not in churches. And so, ~um, ~like the marketplaces do a mission place and you don't have to be faith, faith forward in your business and be like, Jesus, everything. If you want to be, that's great. But for me, ~uh,~ my husband, he even did ministry this, this way we have soft edges in a firm center, meaning like we want people to, we want to drop people in, ~um,~ and lead with values, values first and be like, you know what?
~Uh, ~and I think it was mother Teresa that said, ~um, ~preach the gospel wherever you go. ~Um, ~And when necessary use words, [00:37:00] it was just like your life is, is, is preaching the gospel. Like people I'm, I'm, I'm. Fairly quiet from my, my front, but in the back people are like, you're a Christian, aren't you? I'm like, yes, yes, I am.
They're like, I could tell because of this, this, and this, and this. I'm like, great. We're supposed to be salt and light, meaning we make things taste better. We make things, we bring light to dark places. Social media can be a dark place. Ask yourself instead of like, oh, I'm burnt out, such a dark place. I'm gonna like get off of this app now.
Hey, I get that and I respect that, but ask yourself, how can I be salt and light? In an app that is salty and dark.
How can I show up in this space? And now listen, I have my days where I want to like throw my phone and be like, I'm selling everything, getting chickens and a homestead. And I want nobody to know who I am anymore. I think that's just healthy. Yes. And, but would that be obedient to what the Lord has [00:38:00] called you to?
Oh, no. God has been like, ha ha ha ha ha ha. Get back here. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I feel that. I feel that. Do my core as well. And I love that you said that soft edges and affirm, affirm center. And I, and I had a feeling as I'm sure others did too, like you said. ~Um, ~so what's next for you? I mean, you kind of mentioned that you're in a little bit of a transition, but specific to the industry or, you know, what, how do you envision continuing to serve this market in the midst of the ever changing dynamic?
Like, What's next? Yeah, this is a meeting I just had with my team. They're like, Kristen, my team just met three days ago when the Rodan and Fields thing came out and we all were just like, okay, what does this mean for how we serve our students? Like, just what does this change about our programs? And I've kind of already made some changes.
Like I created the new, ~um, Um, ~the hub, which is a 90 day program that's essentially like teaching the foundational principles to network marketing so that people are, because I'm like before, cause I had my signature flagship program that was 2k, the social selling Academy. And I think in 2020, 2021, like when belief was high [00:39:00] and resources were high and cash was flowing, I think people could suspend their disbelief in themselves.
long enough to invest, but now they don't have that luxury. So I'm like, all right, I can't have them join and then prove to them that they can make money. I have to prove to them before they can join. So that's why I created the hub being like, I'm right. First thing I have to do is prove the viability of being able to make money in the online space.
And they learned that in the hub. ~Um, ~and then in the academy, we're doing work shifting. Kind of rearranging our content. Like the content is still there, but what we're doing is we're going to be creating two tracks so that no matter what is happening with your compensation plan and your company, you can be served.
So we're going to have our cold traffic path where it's like, Hey, here's how to do lead generation, email marketing drip campaigns. ~Um, ~so that if someone is just affiliate, it's like, Hey, here's everything you could do here. But a social seller who needs to expand their market can also be like, cool, I'm going to go the cold market traffic route.
And then we'll have the other side that is like, hey, here's team building, [00:40:00] here's culture, onboarding systems, and those things. ~Um, ~the one I'm sitting with right now is my leadership school, just asking, like, because it's, it's, it's, It is the most transformative offer I have. It is a neuroscience based approach for teaching,~ um,~ from, for coaching.
And I, it was co written with a psychotherapist that was trauma informed, ~um, ~how to coach without causing harm, how to understand how trauma shows up with people and how they do their business, ~um, ~how to coach with compassion, ask open ended questions. And I am so deeply proud of that certification program.
~Um, ~we're just sitting with like, all right, is that still. How we have that built. Is that still the best option? Or, ~um, ~but I also tell you like, ~um, ~do I want to say this? I don't know. My husband's like, Kristen, you always say things before it happens. And then you get yourself stuck in things like you announced too soon.
I'm like, I don't know. I can't help myself. I'm a, I'm a, I'm a processor. I do think there is,~ um,~ another, another business On the horizon, I, we have to clean up a couple things first with, ~um, ~with my company and how we're serving [00:41:00] people right now in the social selling industry. But, I have this belief, now I love that social selling or network marketing is the catalyst to a lot of growth in people's lives.
But, there are so many people out there, that don't, don't want the business model. And, but they still need transformation in their life. They still need, like, there are some people who are, who are always going to be nine to five. And I don't think we need to demonize that. I'm like, how can we meet people where they are?
And what if we were to give them all the tools to bring transformation and light and hope and fulfillment to their life without having to be an entrepreneur to do that? And so I think for, for me, this, this thing I'm, I'm, my husband and I are really sitting with is like, you know, ~um, ~What does it look like to serve people who don't have a business?
Like, where it doesn't have to be like, Hey, you know, start a business so you can change your life. What if it's like, change your life no matter what, and here's all the tools we want to give you. And, and the tools that we love teaching people is like, you know, [00:42:00] relationships and marriage and parenting and time management and financial management and, ~um, ~gosh, health wellness, like all the other,~ um, uh,~ I, I've just become more of a holistic person looking at the person as a whole when I'm coaching them.
And I'll tell, I'm going to tell you, if I, if I have to talk about marketing and someone's revenue for the rest of my life, I'm going to gouge my eyeballs out with a spoon. Like it's just not, I mean, it's great. It's what I'm good at and I love it, but there's more to the human. Then making money and a social media presence and duplicating your teams and growing and getting on stages and I'm, I've told people I've joked around that I'm in this, ~um,~ Ecclesiastes chapters of chapter of my life.
Like it's meaningless. It's all meaningless. I saw the wealth. I saw the success. I did the things meaningless, meaningless, but I'll tell you what, and this is such a good reminder for all of us is like I came across this verse and it said, you know, That one, that, it said, oh gosh, hold on, hold on, I'm gonna put, look at this all like, it's seeing, it's seeing a [00:43:00] thing or two, if you give me a second, I'm gonna read to you this thing I came across, and maybe everybody needs it, but I've been clinging to Ecclesiastes 3, A Time for Everything, and I think maybe that's something that everyone needs is like, There's a time for mourning and a time for rejoicing, a time to scatter seeds, a time to gather them, a time to build up, a time to tear down, ~um, ~and all those things.
But what I came across with, ~um, ~Ecclesiastes, come on now, give it to me. All right. Here it is. All right. Here it is. Here it is. Here it is. Hold on, hold on. Sorry if this is giving me a second. You might have to edit this out. I will. I can't. This is huge. No, ~um, ~all the scripture. Hold on. Give me a second.
Okay. All right. This is it. All right. So it's, it's right after a time for everything. And there's, then there's a section called the God given task. And it says,~ um, ~ what gain has the worker [00:44:00] from his, from his toil? I have seen the business that God has given to the children of man to be busy with. And he has made everything beautiful in its time.
And then you kind of skip down and says, I perceive that there is nothing better than for them to be joyful and to do good as long as they live, that everyone should eat and drink and take pleasure in all of his toil. This is God's gift to man. So I would ask you like. I feel like there's a lot of begrudging and resenting the toil right now and asking why the toil?
What's the toil? And my work has been, how is there good in the toil? How can I find goodness in this? How is this toil God's gift to me? I'm not trying to like toxic positivity our way out of this. I'm just like, but how is your toil your gift? How is like this thing we're meant to do in the world, whatever your next thing is, like it is, it is a gift and it is I will tell you probably God's biggest refinement tool in your life.
Like I'll tell you, there are two big refining tools, my [00:45:00] daughter and my business. If people are like, and I tell people, I'm like, if you want to know what God's doing in my life, ask what he's doing in my business. Cause that's where he's often speaking to me most. And that is where I feel least qualified, least equipped, least like, and I've had to become the dependent on him.
And trust me, I had my seasons where. I think I, I think my ego got, I had to be humbled. There was a season where God was like, have you forgotten that you asked for a supernatural favor and I gave this to you and I granted this is, this is mine. And I was like, Oh, Oh yeah. Sorry. about that. So there's been, there's been like, ~uh,~ man, there's been a whole different thing.
And we could talk about my faith crisis maybe in another episode, but, ~um, ~yeah, it's man, your business is probably God's biggest refinement tool for you outside of your marriage and parenting. Yes, it's funny. My husband and I were literally just having this conversation, which I don't know if you realize at one point where you're talking, ~uh, ~a [00:46:00] bunch of deer walked right outside your window, but I was like, Oh my gosh.
So if you're people are watching this on YouTube, I live in Colorado. So there's deer going to my yard constantly. It's crazy. But my husband wasn't a bear. Oh yeah, right. I would have been like, okay. ~Uh,~ but I was like, is that a deer? And I'm like, oh, it's a bunch of deer. And it reminded me, ~um, ~of my husband.
We had a conversation this morning. He is a hunter. I grew up, my father is not a big fan of hunting. And so I've kind of been like, I don't, I'm an indoor girl, not like looking at the outside, but anyway, but he's an outdoor, he loves, he, and he was hunting is a part of who I am. And I said, well, business is a part of who I am.
And, you know, when you've been given the gift as you have, and as I have of, of that, that, that wisdom or that knowledge to be able to share, to impact others on that journey. And I love that you're thinking of going deeper, even, even deeper. Even outside of the business side of it, too. But I think that's what we all have to look into ourselves and see what we're called to.
And I think in this time of transition, we have to realize that, ~um, ~and a mentor of mine told me this at an [00:47:00] Alex. In chapter four, all the believers gathered together, but then in chapter eight, they scattered. And the reason that they did that was to be a light to the different cities to, and there was even some division among like the disciples, you know, in that, in that way.
And that's, I know what we were experiencing. And so I know what's on my heart. And I know you had one of the most beautiful posts. I think it was a story or something, right. When all the Seint. News hit that just said. You know, give people grace, or I think it was a story. Somebody said to you, like, can you believe they're doing this?
And you're like, no, no, you know, this is people have to do what they have. This is their mortgages. This is like the bank. Isn't going to be like, Oh, we're going to hold off on your asking for your mortgage payment while you figure out the next company step. No one cares. Like, but people, they have to make their decisions.
So have compassion. And I, I say this too, we are watching a lot of people operate from fear. And when we are operating from fear. Sometimes the best version of ourselves is not around for that. And so we are [00:48:00] watching, I have to remind myself, because I can get really spicy in the online space, and I had to talk to my therapist about this, to be honest.
So I was like, how can I exercise a lot of compassion, even for the things that make my blood pressure boil? And I have to realize, at the end of the day, they're scared and looking for a means to survive. And Sometimes it doesn't look very good, but I can have compassion for the scared version of that person.
And I think we can all exercise that and give some grace instead of like, You're so gross! You're giving this industry a bad name! Ugh. Maybe. Maybe. But they're also scared and trying to figure out how to pay, how to pay the bills. The things we resort to when we're scared, ~um,~ you know, I can have a lot of sympathy and compassion for that.
~Um, ~so I think, I think it would just be great for us all to extend grace right now. It's not, it's tough times. It is. And, and I, I completely agree with you, you know, and I think we have to have grace for ourselves and take time and be patient. That was another, I know a piece [00:49:00] of advice that you shared that people definitely need to hear is like, look for that piece and, you know, wait, there's no hurry in this business, the principles that work.
In this will work in any company with, you know, any person, if they're authentically who they are and who they're, you know, the Lord made them to be. And it doesn't mean that network marketing, or like, I also love that your story is you, you weren't necessarily meant to be a network marketing leader, but you can still serve the industry in the capacity of your gifts.
And I think to be okay with that and, and realize that. We have, we have to look into ourselves and the hard things that we do. And you've done that beautifully on this podcast to share like some mistakes that you've made. I've done the same thing. And so we have to be vulnerable and give grace to ourselves and obviously give, give grace to others.
Cause we're all figuring it out together. How this is going to shake out. Well, I know we could keep talking about all the things and any time you ever want to come on this podcast and share your heart on anything I would, it would be a [00:50:00] blessing and an honor to have you. And,~ um,~ I really thank you for being so transparent and vulnerable and sharing just all Of your story, but also the wisdom that I know is so needed for people right now, and it was needed for me.
So thank you so much, Kristen. Oh, you're so welcome. I was just thinking of one last, one last thing I want to bring up when we were talking about,~ um, ~women in business and that being our gifting and a catalyst to doing good. I just want to remind people in the early church when acts was, ~uh, ~during that time, I can't remember.
~Uh, ~what city where there was a church, but Lydia was a businesswoman and she, she specialized in, in, ~uh, ~purple dyes and she was incredibly wealthy and her being a successful businesswoman made her an actually instrumental key part to growing the church. And so when I think of like God's work and the kingdom, I'm like, Lydia was mentioned for a reason.
So maybe you are Lydia. Like, how can we be a Lydia that is like, wow, because of how we are blessed in our business, how can we,~ um, ~be the church, be Jesus in the marketplace? Like, I, [00:51:00] I'm, I'm pretty disenfranchised from the church right now. And maybe that's not fair to say. ~Um, ~and I know we could do the whole, like, it's, it's, you know, it's Jesus, the, the people, the church, but all that to say is like, but how can we, Be examples of Jesus in the marketplace where I think people listen people are looking for hope and the first place They're looking is like money, but eventually like the money will disappoint unless you put your hope in God It will fall short it like you guys can have seven zeros at the end of your paycheck And if you do not find your your fulfillment and your hope and your abundance in God, it will feel empty ~Um, ~ask me how I know that could be a whole nother whole nother podcast, but, ~um,~ let the season be the season that,~ um,~ I don't know that the blesses you let God speak to you.
~Um, ~and it's a season. It's not going to be here forever. It's a hard season. You know, we're all going to get through it on the other side. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Not without him. I don't think, but you know, that's the beautiful thing about Jesus is he came to save us from [00:52:00] religion. I think so many people get caught in like, you know, what's the right or wrong thing to do, or, you know, what the Bible says about this or that, but, you know, ultimately in someone, a good godly friend just told me that sin is just straying from his plan.
Like it's, it means mark literally. And so, right. And so if you're missing the mark for what he has for you. for you. And,~ um,~ you know, and if you're, you're not doing the thing that he's calling you to that is sin. And that is scripture. I think it was it in James. I think it's in James, but anyways, so yeah, it's, I'm, I'm with you that we can't do it without him.
~Um, ~and I think people who are putting their hope even in the church or in there, Nope, don't do it. Or politics or a leader. Don't do it or an owner of a company and all. Don't do it. Nope. Nope. We, we all,~ um,~ you know, point it back to him. And so I love that this has been the theme of this message today, Kristen, because just, I had no idea.
I knew you had to be a believer, but I had no idea how much impact that he makes [00:53:00] on your day to day life. And the fact that you It's quoted the scripture so beautifully. That's even been so close to my heart. And I know many others in this season is just yet another reminder that he is in this with us.
And so you need that reminder and I'm looking at you. I need that reminder. And I know the people listening need that too. So look to him. He will give you everything that you need. ~Um, ~and then if you need coaching or social selling strategy coaching. I know Kristen's your girl. They find you like, but you can just head to my website, Kristen boss.
com. We've got resources on there. I have, ~um, ~the seven day content to conversations challenge is just a way to wake up your algorithm. ~Um, ~we have our new offer, the hub, you can go to the hub, Kristen boss. com forward slash the hub. ~Um, ~we open up that wait list the first through the third of each month, and then, ~um, ~social selling Academy will be opening then too.
So you can just head to my website. Take a look around. We've got some fun stuff over there. ~Um, ~but yeah, and you can give me a follow on Instagram. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you again, Kristen. I can't thank you enough for being here. Thanks Heather. It was a real pleasure. Yes. [00:54:00]
