128 | Ask the Expert: Bob Heilig
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[00:00:00] Hey friends, welcome back to the Called to Lead podcast. So today's episode is going to be so awesome because I am interviewing the one and only Bob Heilig. So if you're a listener of my podcast, you likely know all about Bob and his amazing wisdom when it comes to all things in growing your network marketing business, by choosing to love, serve, and grow, which absolutely aligns with everything that this podcast is all about.
But I have Bob to personally thank for being the catalyst for. The tremendous growth I experienced in my business when I implemented the things that he teaches in his programs years ago. So it's been about five years since I first connected with Bob and it's been such a blessing to watch him continue. To evolve with how the industry is evolving, especially when it comes to social media and the rise of the online influencer.
So he and I have both been talking about this separately on his podcast, that your virtual upline podcast, as well as on mine and today we're going to be coming together to talk about [00:01:00] all of the things from the money mindset to choosing faith over fear. To how to actually do your business with, or without social media and what that looks like.
So you're going to love today's conversation and diving in and getting Bob's thoughts on all of the things. So let's do this. [00:02:00]
Bob, this is obviously a huge deal. And I'm so honored to have you on here for many reasons. Of course, I think most of my listeners know exactly who you are, but it's pretty special to me because you were actually my very first podcast interview when I started this years ago. And I've had the pleasure of getting your feedback on multiple episodes, which of course I'll link in the show notes, but Bob, what a blessing to have you with us to share all your wisdom today.
Thank you for being here. Yeah. ~Um,~ I'm honored to be a repeat guest. I'm looking forward to our conversation today. Yes. Well, I know most people, since they know your backstory, if they don't, they can check out the previous episode because it's really cool. You actually share your heart, your testimony, and how you integrate both your, you know, your faith and your experience into loving, serving, and [00:03:00] growing our businesses.
And so I know people are already grateful for the wisdom that's already been shared, but I'd love to dive right into the topic that I know you and I have been both talking about big time. Which is essentially the rise of the influencer, if you will, and contrasting that with traditional network marketing leadership, and I just want to kind of dive into that, because I think that what's happened is that network marketers have obviously leveraged the power of social media as they should.
to market their business, but they're chasing after some of the wrong things, which is leading to both burnout for those who actually have built massive followings, confusion for those who maybe don't want that or don't know how to do that or not having luck trying the, you know, to emulate their strategies.
So what are you seeing in terms of this shifting in the industry? ~Uh, ~what, from your big picture, Yeah, I think, ~um,~ so I think a lot of, I think a lot of what we're seeing today [00:04:00] has been the byproduct of, ~uh, ~the pandemic and COVID. ~Um, ~we have a whole new generation of people that entered into this profession, you know, in 2020.
2021 2022 that came into that started a business in an environment that was unlike anything that we had ever experienced before. And quite frankly, ~um, ~was real in the sense that it happened. But when you really think about traditionally what it takes to build and grow a business in this space, it wasn't real life.
And so we had people that, and, and not just people that started their business, but also existing consultants, some of which had been around for a while, they kind of fell into this trap of developing some bad habits because it was easy during that period of time. And all you really had to do to be successful during that time period for two to three years, Was just post as much as possible about your stuff on social [00:05:00] media.
You really didn't need a whole lot of skills when it came to like marketing and selling because the whole entire world was at a standstill and people were looking for things to do and they were bored and they had a lot of money cause they couldn't go do anything. And so what we saw it pretty,~ uh,~ typically across the board is companies grew at unprecedented levels.
People's teams doubled and tripled. It was just like this expansive, explosive, exponential growth. And, and then what happened was, is, ~um,~ things changed, you know, the world got back to the new normal. ~Um, ~that was, that, that was combined with, ~um, ~economic contraction here in the U S where, you know, they don't call it a depression, but our recession, but we've been in a recession by traditional measures for several years now.
And it just got harder. Got harder, but harder has always kind of been the norm, right? For growing a business. Like the, the harder part is part of what makes growing a business [00:06:00] rewarding is that we have to grow in order to make the business grow. And the truth of the matter was there wasn't a lot of personal growth going on for two to three years.
And that always will come back to bite you. Your business results will always. Fall to the level of your own personal development. And so what happened was, but we, we saw the model of success became these kind of super sellers and what traditionally we call the influencer, right? And, ~um,~ and I, you know, I don't like that term because If you really think about it, every single one of us is an influencer when it comes to social media, because we have the ability to influence other people's thoughts and feelings and actions through the content that we create.
But when we say influencer, we're typically, we're referring to people that have built large followings. that are leveraging that following as a way to promote products. In a lot of cases, they're promoting multiple products from multiple [00:07:00] companies. And so these types of people join a company and they have massive success.
And then, ~um,~ that's what's promoted as like, that's what you do. And so, ~um, ~that kind of started to become the thing that people were aspiring to. And for a while it was kind of working for them. And then all of a sudden everything changed. Social media changed. You know, the reality is, is it is, and I've been on social media growing a business since 2016.
When I compare what it was like to make a sale or get a customer in 2016, even on social media. It is 10 times harder at a minimum in 2024 to make a sale on social media today. Compare that to 2020, it's a hundred times harder. And so now all of a sudden the, the model for success is, you know, build a big following, become this super seller, put all, create as much content as you can.
It's always more, more, more, more. And people are trying to do that. And they're failing miserably because they're [00:08:00] not developing the skills. They really need to grow a business. Here's the other thing that's happened is because these traditional, you know, typical influencers, they really don't grow teams.
Because they're not leaders in most cases. You know, I just posted this the other day. I think this is an important distinction is every leader is an influencer, but not all influencers are leaders because you don't, you don't measure a leader by their own personal results. You're not a leader because you've built a following.
You're not a leader because you've sold a lot of product and made a lot of money. You are a leader because you have helped other people do those things. And so I work with a lot of these big influencers. And here's what I see is I see people that have incredible amounts of personal sales and those sales represent 80 to 90 percent of their team volume.
And so everything they're doing is at the back of their own effort. And that's not a business, by the way. It's not. [00:09:00] And, and, but this is what people are following. They're listening to their advice and what they don't realize is that they're listening to the advice of people that don't even have the same goals and aspirations and values as they do.
You know, most of the people that are in this profession, you know, they, yes, they want to make money. Okay, but they also want to build a business that really serves people and helps people and makes a difference in their life. And they want to build something that can give them a little bit more freedom to be able to do the things that matter to the most in life.
And when you look at the influencers life, that's not what they have. They're on a treadmill that will never stop of content of getting customers to replace the ones that they signed up and left because they have a very transactional business. They're not focused on serving. They're not building relationships.
It's just this thing. It will never stop. And then here we have the masses of people are looking at that as the way to be successful. And it's not how you are [00:10:00] successful. It's like, you know what it really starts with Heather? What's your definition of success? Yes. Like what, what is your definition of success?
And so what we do in our business, so the name of our, for the benefit of anybody that not know what we do. So the name of our company is Your Virtual Upline. And what we do is we teach people how to build a business and a life that you love by understanding what it means to lead a business. We are for faith based network marketers and social sellers that want to grow a business that aligns authentically with their beliefs and their principles.
And so we teach people, there's two pieces to this, there's living from love, and there's leading with love. And we can talk about [00:11:00] what that, what the distinction, but when we talk about living from love, there are three components of this that I think are really important to understand, because this is going to get to the root of the problem that almost everybody has today.
So living from love, there's three components. Number one is you must, you must be sure that the way that you are approaching your business. You're the things you're doing and the things you're saying must honor your faith. And when you look at that alone Okay, and and listen, you know I know probably a lot of your listeners are Christians and this is gonna hit home even harder for the Christians but even if you're not a Christian if you If you're a person that has some level of faith, meaning that you believe in something bigger than yourself, that there's some bigger purpose to your life.
There's more meaning than just us being here randomly. Then what you have to look at is, is the [00:12:00] way you're growing your business. Is that aligned with your values and the way that you want to live your life? And so when you look at the traditional influencer model and the way that they teach people to build and grow a business, it is a very transactional approach.
It's treating social media like a A cash read personal cash register. It's promoting and pushing products all day long. It's treating people like numbers. It doesn't value transformations. It's all about transactions, and it's more, more, more, more. And when you look at the way that you talk to people, It's leading with product, it's pitching right away, it's copy and paste, and this is what's being taught.
And there are people that are coming into this profession that have these great hopes and dreams that maybe this could be something that could improve their life in a meaningful way. And then they're being taught to build a [00:13:00] business this way, and it immediately goes against everything that they've always believed and known.
And it is this misalignment. This is why people struggle with consistency. This is why people burn out because we are led to believe that we have to become someone that we are not or that we don't want to be to be successful. There's so many leaders and I will say leaders in this space because they do have a team.
That are teaching these strategies, and there are people on their team that that are that want to honor their faith and what they do, but they keep hearing this leader telling them to do things that go in direct opposition of that. And so now we start to wonder, Do we even want this thing? See, because if, if we believe that our business is not something that can help us become like self actualize into a better version of ourself and that now we have to choose between successful business owner or, ~uh,~ you know, person of God or somebody that's honoring our faith, [00:14:00] you're never going to win that battle.
These there's only one possible outcome and it is burnout and it is overwhelmed because it is exhausting. Trying to be someone that you're not. And so that's what it starts with. That is the root. And so what we do, the thing that we do that's different and unique, the most important thing that we do is we teach a philosophy that we call love, serve, grow.
And we teach people an approach to growing their business that doesn't make them have to choose between their faith and the person that they want to be. It's the more authentic people centered approach to growing a business. It's, it's, it's love led marketing. It's servant heart selling and people centered growth.
We teach them that you don't have to choose between these two things and that they can become one. And it's this beautiful, magical thing that happens when you can bring those things into alignment. [00:15:00] And, but that ultimately is the underlying root cause of what's going on. So we're following a path that is fundamentally misaligned with who we are, with our faith, with our values, what's most important to us.
And now we have a whole bunch of people in this profession that are lacking the skills that they need to be successful. And they're just completely stuck and they don't know where to go. Oh man. Well, I mean, that even speaks to me and I'm sure some of those that are listening because social media has become so prevalent that it seems as if posting daily and learning to be consistent on reels, you know, doing those actions is the only way.
And so that's what people are focused on and their fulfillment is coming from the numbers, from the growth, from the paycheck. When I think ultimately that is what people are looking for is fulfillment and their worth, which they can only look to the Lord for their worth. And then from the fulfillment, it's when we're operating in alignment with the gifts that he's given [00:16:00] us and who we're meant to be.
And certainly there are people, amazing people of faith that are doing that beautifully on social media, but it's not necessarily for everybody to. Use their gifts and skill sets in that way. So what would be your advice to someone who wants to use social media or not, but doesn't want to emulate those, you know, the strategies or skills that all the other, a lot of not all, but a lot of the other network marketing coaches are currently focused on, which is finding a niche and, you know, building a massive following in order to build.
Well, so listen, social media is not the problem. Social media is, is, is agnostic. It is neutral. It is not good or bad. It is what you decide to make of it. And so I think social media is the best gift we've ever been given in this profession because it allows us to serve at a level that we normally wouldn't be able to.
And it allows [00:17:00] us to connect with people in a way that we never could before. And so I think part of transforming the space is, you know, Is let's stop looking at social media as the actual problem because it's not the problem It's the way we're being taught to use the tool, right? It's just a marketing tool.
That's all it really is And so, you know, I think here's really where Here's really where it starts is, you know, I mentioned one component of it, ~um, ~this concept of living from love. It's honoring your faith. And by the way, and I want to just keep reiterating this,~ um, ~you don't have to be a Christian for honor for the, for the concept of honoring your faith to be really important because here's what faith actually is.
Faith is just operating in your business in a way that's more authentic to who you are. And that could be irregardless of your beliefs, like bigger and beyond you. ~Um, ~but it's also when you think about the word [00:18:00] faith, faith, the demonstration of faith is courageous action. And so there are, there are a whole host of people in this space today that talk the talk and they say the right things.
But when you look at what they do, they're not doing anything. Right? And they're like, Oh, I'm a faithful person, but you're not on, you're not practicing your faith. Right? And so part of it is doing the second component is valuing yourself. But the third part of living from love is, is redefining success.
And I think this is where it starts for us is we have to get really clear what is success for us and what really is important and meaningful for you to create in your life. Because what we have to start looking at is. Your business goals, if they're not set in light of your personal vision for your life, right?
So we do this in the wrong order. We're taught, well, the [00:19:00] goal is to hit the top rank in the company. I mean, that's what everybody, right? Like hit the top rank. I'm the first day I joined my company. They were like, this is your goal. It was RVP in our company and it was the rallying cry. Go RVP. I remember.
This was funny story. It's kind of pathetic. Now it's funny. ~Um,~ it was pathetic when it happened. So I first entered the space in, I'm going to date myself. I just turned 50. So whatever, 2001. All right. And I joined my company in 2001. The name of the company was ACN. And so my email address became ACN RVP 2002.
There was, I was there. Right. Going to do it. Don't you know, my next email address was acnrvp2005 because I, I got smart the first time. I'm like, I'm going to do it in a year. And then I'm like, I recruited one person in a year. So let me give myself three years. And then it became [00:20:00] acnrvp2005. Well, guess what?
That came and went, went 2008 and I didn't even make it to 2008, but that was what I thought it was. It was just hit the top rank. And so that's the goal. So let's do everything we can. To just get to the goal because that's success, right? Like you're not successful until you're hoisted up onto the stage and you give your acceptance speech.
Forget about the fact that every single day you have to talk to people and that you're sharing products or an opportunity with them that could actually change their life. And forget the fact that maybe Maybe serving people in the everyday process of building the business isn't just tied to you selling them.
Like maybe you can serve and add value in your business and not make money on that interaction. I wasn't even focused on that. Cause I was like, just let me get there, do more, go, go, go, go. And I hated every single step of the way and I [00:21:00] resisted it. And that's why it took me 10 times longer. I say this, The day that it changed for me and it took me a very long time, it took me actually quitting my first company and being out of the profession for four years completely said, I'll never do this again because I, what I didn't understand is that it was just fundamentally against who I was, everything that was being taught.
And I came back in and I remember saying, the only way I'm going to do this is it's got to be totally different. I got to do this in a way that feels good to me. Right. I want success to be more than just a rank. I want success that fills my soul. That makes me feel like a good person. Right. And so here's where it all changed for me.
I stopped obsessing over making a million dollars. And I started obsessing over helping a million people and the primary focus. And I love what you said. Every single great business, any [00:22:00] lasting business is one that's built on serving people. Right. And when, when my mindset shifted, That's when everything began to change.
And what I didn't realize is that was actually the seed, the birthplace of what we call love, serve, grow today, right? Just like learning how to love and serve and grow and teach that in other people. And so, but that became kind of the catalyst where things change. And so success for me, making money was part of it, but it also became what is the impact that I'm making, right?
Who am I serving? And then the third part was. Am I growing and am I helping other people grow? See, when our definition of success expands beyond just the rank or the money, now all of a sudden we have to look at what we do. I'll share a quick, ~um,~ quick story with you. I think this is the perfect example.
So I briefly mentioned these earlier. So in, in our business and our program, we have a program called love, serve, grow. So we teach people [00:23:00] there's, ~um, ~there's two specific kind of things that we teach are very different than what most people learn. Love led marketing and servant heart selling. I mean, radically different ways to create content and have conversations with people.
And so people come to us, they're stuck, you know, what they're being taught is very transactional. They don't like it anymore. It's not working. I'm done with treating people like numbers. I do not want to talk to a hundred people in 24 hours. These are things that go against everything that I've ever believed.
Okay. ~Um, ~I know the answer is not creating another real, right? It's like at some point. Like how many reels or tick tocks or stories are you going to do before you realize that's not the actual problem? And so we teach them a different way to do it, right? And I had one, one of our students, this just happened.
This happens all the time. So one of the things we teach people to do is you have to have the right approach. But once you learn a different way to do [00:24:00] something, you have to purposefully slow down. Because when you're developing a new skill, you have to be very deliberate in the beginning about the way that you do it.
And so you purposefully slow down to be more present to the way that you're having a conversation and learning from it. And then here's inevitably what happens. There'll be some sort of a big promotion that month. And this, and I'll get a message from, from the student and they'll say, here's my problem.
I want to do it your way. I want to serve. I know this is what the kind of business I want to build, but there's a big contest. There's a big promotion this month. And my upline is telling me I need to post five times a day. And they're telling me I need to talk to 10 people a day. And I need to message every past customer and say, here's the and, and I don't know what to do.
And so what I said to this particular woman, and I say all the time, I go, at [00:25:00] some point you have to decide, are you going to continue to align your actions with your short, your short term financial goals? Or do you want to start aligning them with your value? And because what we do is we're constantly trading off our values and doing things the way that we want because we're in this scarcity mindset of having to get to this next short term thing, which by the way, we're not getting there.
Anyway, that's the funny thing. I'm like, well, You, you, you just told me that you haven't sponsored somebody in a year and like, you've been doing it this way and it hasn't been working for you. So why would you want to continue to do it this way? But it's, there's this fear and there's an uncertainty around change.
And so it starts with really getting clear on what, what does success look like for you? It's, it's learning an approach to business that's aligned with those goals. [00:26:00] And then it's being willing to purposely slow down in the beginning. So that you can really begin to learn a better way to do it. And that's what most people are not willing to do either.
They're not willing to do the difficult hard work of actually making the change. And this is, I think,~ um, ~this is the big problem in this space today is that we've got the vast majority of people. They're still marketing like it was 2020. It's not anymore. And it's not working for them anymore. But they're not recognizing that, that the problem isn't, you're not doing enough of it, it's just that it's the wrong approach.
But here's the other big issue, is, and I'll tie this back into this kind of influencer thing. This is one of the most concerning things I see in the space today, is a lot, like an alarming amount of our students have almost completely abandoned growing a team. And it's [00:27:00] become very like in vogue to talk about like companies are, are marketing their compensation plans by saying you don't have to build a team here.
And then you got the MRR people that are saying team building is dead. You don't do that. You can't do that anymore. And then, and, but why is this happening? Well, part of it is it's a manipulation tactic for somebody to sell you on their thing. But for the most part is when you look at selling. You know, we sell multiple things in our business.
One of the things we sell are the products and services that we offer. But another thing that we sell is our business. And when you look at sponsoring, that sale is 10 times harder to make. It takes 10 times more skill. People don't know how to sell. In this space. And that's why I laugh when people call it social selling.
I'm like, we have an entire profession of social sellers that don't have the first clue on what selling actually is. Selling is not posting content. That's marketing. That's not selling. Right. And so, [00:28:00] but it's become hard to grow a team. So the easier thing to do is, well, that feels bad and I don't want to learn a better way to do it.
And I'm tired of people telling me no. So I'm going to just focus on my existing customer base and I'm going to just keep creating content. Following this model, which is never going to work for you. Here's an interesting thing. A lot of these quote unquote leaders that are teaching these strategies are teaching based off things they did five years ago that don't even work anymore today.
And by the way, a lot of them are teaching things. They're not even doing anymore. Like you're like, how hypocritical is that? And how like lack of integrity from a leadership standpoint that you're not even taking the personal responsibility to find out if the things you're teaching your team actually work today.
And so look, I could go on and on and on about this kind of stuff. There's a lot of, listen, I love this profession. I'm in it for a reason. I serve this profession for a reason [00:29:00] because I believe in it. But there is a lot of stuff going on today that just makes me really sad and sick, quite frankly, at the way that what we've turned this into.
Yeah, I'm, I'm right there with you. I love the industry. I love our company. And this is exactly why I do the podcast is to, with the hopes to really uplift all of the above, because I think there is so much darkness in, in any business. It's not just in network marketing, but it's because people are leading with the fear, like you said, and they're, they're choosing the short term gain.
Out of the, you know, the fear or the lack or seeking their worth from something else. And so I do want to touch on the money part because I've learned so much from everything that you have taught me and my journey of being a student of yours,~ uh, ~since gosh, I think 2019, 2018, maybe it's when I first, first discovered you.
And honestly, it was one of the biggest transformation points in my business was enrolling in your program and learning the foundational basics of what was already working, but then implementing the things that I wasn't doing. And [00:30:00] it's been such a blessing. So I can't recommend love surf grow enough to anybody that's listening.
But one of the things that I did learn that was kind of mind blowing to me is that quite often we self sabotage our own financial success,~ uh, ~by making choices, either by spending every dime that we make or by living for that short term gain rather than the long term potential of something like building a team, which, you know, I'm, I'm.
Bless now that I still sell pretty well, not a top seller to be top seller, you know, in the team, but I help many, many women sell enough to bring an amazing income for their family. And so I would love for you to kind of touch on that where like the mindset around money is, I think, tied to some of these fear based decisions.
Joining other companies or, you know, things like that. What are your, well, let me address something that you just said. I think the personal goal of a true leader in this profession [00:31:00] is never to be a top seller. It should not be to be a top seller. Now. You should sell. If I, my goal, if I'm in the field today and I'm leading a team, I'm absolutely selling every month cause I, I just need to be able to share the story of a new customer that I got this month.
And I also want to be on the front line so that I can understand what the reality of what it's like to say, and by the way, you'll never understand the reality cause you are who you are and they are who they are. But I at least want to be able to have conversations, Real life conversations in the marketplace of today so that I can understand what's out there.
This is the reason why I still, to this point, I don't do personal coaching anymore, but I love hopping on a call with a client that's new and I want to understand what it's like for them. Right? And so I want to sell, but if I'm a top seller, then that means I am focusing my time in a space, in a place that's not really serving the overall [00:32:00] needs of my team.
Like, you know what I want to be? I definitely want, I want to be a top rank advancer. If that's a thing like I want to be, I want to be tops and helping people promote rank in my team. You know, I want to be consistent in, in, in selling. I want to be consistent in sponsoring, but the thing that I want to be recognized for is I am a creator of leaders.
And I am pouring my time intentionally into the right people, helping them grow, delegating faster, leading from the front. That's what I want. Right. And so once again, you got to look really closely at who are you following? Cause a top seller doesn't mean they're a leader. Okay. I just, we've said that already, but I want to say it again.
So the other part of the question, tell me the other part of the question that yes, the other part of the question is tied to the money mindset of the money mindset. Okay. So I, I think,~ um, ~ you know, this is something that I had a [00:33:00] big issue with still, still do to this day, if I'm honest. ~Um, I~ think every level of success in our life will challenge our current identity And our beliefs around who we are and what we're worthy of.
And so I think what happens is, is that the beautiful part about this profession is when you do finally figure it out, right? And you crack that code and you recognize like, there's a form, there's a pretty predictable formula for success. And it actually starts to work. You get to a point like I remember when I finally hit like the first real leadership rank.
It was so far beyond what I ever thought possible for myself, right? And it's like, so we get there and then all of a sudden, like the imposter syndrome hits. And we really start kind of wondering, you know, am I worthy of this check that I see coming in every single month? And this team that's looking to me for, [00:34:00] for leadership and support and, and, and that we struggle with this kind of idea.
And, and what, what happens is, is because we're not really, you know, success is, is, is kind of equal parts. internal and external, right? It's constantly being able to, to work on your own thinking and your own beliefs and expanding your vision of what's possible and what's next and examining your thoughts about yourself.
And then the external part is the, the tangible skills and the practices and things. But I think enough leaders, they don't really pay attention to what's going on in their mind and the things that they think about themselves and understanding the power of that. That's where the self sabotage starts to kick in.
You know, self sabotage is really, it's you trying to bring your self income back to the level of what you, your worth, your own internal self worth, right? And so that's part of it is I think that, you know, we just fundamentally will have a, a tendency to, to kind of get that back [00:35:00] to where we are, but there's another part of it.
The other part of the reason why we start to struggle to me, like self sabotage is also partly us spending the time on the spending our time on the wrong things. Cause like, I don't know too many leaders that are like, you know, worth their salt that are just sitting around doing nothing. The self sabotage is very rarely like I do nothing.
It's I start doing things. That are not ultimately the things that are going to continue to help me serve and grow and go to that next level. And so what happens is we reach a level of success and we do it really just off of that kind of, you know, that, that, that hustle and grind mindset. We're, we're, we're coming from a place of fear.
We're just trying to do whatever we can to get there. And we do it out of sheer effort and will. And then all of a sudden we become, we start to become more afraid of losing what we have. Then creating that [00:36:00] next level of success. And so we start playing defense and we double down, we get away from the personal sponsoring, we get away from the, the, you know, the, the getting customers and we start to manage our team.
And we, we, we just try to like, just squeeze as much out of the people that are here. And we're constantly worried about losing the rank and doing this and that. And then all, like to me, the form of self sabotage that I fell into more often was I would get caught up in that trap of just trying to get, get other people to do more.
And part of it was doing for people, right? So like this fear that we have tied to this, like. Desire to be in control is we're afraid to delegate. We don't want other people to do it because we know we can do it The best and if they do it and it doesn't it's not as good as us that might hurt our results So we hold on to everything on our to do list.
We try to do for people, right? We don't delegate and what happens is Slowly, but surely we start to run ourself into the [00:37:00] ground because there's never going to be a shortage of things to do And then when the business starts to slow You We don't do what we should do, which is just go back and find new people.
We double down on the support calls and the trainings and let's run a challenge this month. And Hey, let's do one on one frontline calls every month. And we just keep adding to our to do list and none of it is working. And we just keep going deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper. And then all of a sudden we're like this, I don't want this anymore.
We're like checked out. This is not fun. Right. And, and, and it, and it doesn't have to be that way. You know? So like going back to what we said, If your definition of success is, is broader than just money or a rank, that's the, the fuel that will keep you going and striving for more. I talked to a lot of leaders.
They say, Bob, my problem is I don't want anymore. Like, [00:38:00] I'm already making more money than I ever thought I would. And my family is good. And so like, I struggle, like, why should I want to go like there's, and it's only because the only thing they're focusing on is, is just that. And, but, you If our definition of success is, is, is loving and serving and growing and we're really present that there's always another level of serving to go to.
There's always another level of growth to create in ourselves, right? We're, we truly realize like this is what God is calling us to do, right? Like, you know, our purpose is to love and to serve and to grow. And when that's the thing that is like the accountability for us that you're, you're never done.
Right. And, and, and that's, but that's, what's missing for so many people is what you said, that deeper level of fulfillment that comes from focusing on things that are not just tied to the results and the ranks and the outcome. Yes. Well, and I think to tie it [00:39:00] together, what I see happening a lot is the top sellers who are the ones who.
Are selling big and making big money personally are then investing number one, a ton of that money back into like these fancy. I mean, I'm talking thousands. I don't even know if you've talked to some of them about this, but thousands of dollars investing in these systems that absolutely cannot duplicate because You know, I know that your training of a new, I learned this from you, the training of a new distributor starts from before they even purchase your product because they are looking at the process that you used.
And so they're investing thousands of dollars in the name of delegation, right? And So then, and then of course they, I mean, I love, I have amazing assistants and I have grown in the way of delegation and I think you have to, in terms of reaching that higher level of leadership. So I think delegation is important, but they're spending a lot of the money that they're making on these things.
And then when burnout and frustration or circumstances like the economy or the [00:40:00] life cycle of their company. Start to impact their own personal sales volumes. Then their paychecks start dropping because their paycheck isn't built on, you know, the leveraged income helping other people grow. So we can maybe wrap up with that.
Cause I know you've been such, this is amazing to be able to, I do want to address that. Yeah. Because I think this is an important point. And so let's, let's give it a actual example. So the thing that, you know, the thing that an example of these systems that you're talking about would be like text automation, let's say, or something like that, or a funnel, right?
These things like, let's think about what are they really trying to do? Why are they doing this? What are they trying to get at? They're trying to avoid having to talk to people. They don't want to deal with their customers and they don't want to talk to like, so what, what automation, I love automation.
Okay. But the problem is automation can [00:41:00] create alienation if it's used in the wrong way or too much. And so what happens is, is that we over automate the back end of our business and we remove ourself almost completely. And what we don't have is we don't really have more of the, we call it,~ um, um,~ you know, people focused growth where we put in Place processes and systems that are not geared towards driving profit because that's what these things are designed to do.
It's profit centered growth. It's, you know, let me try to make the sales and do the followups through text. I don't want to have to deal with that. People focused growth is let me put into place processes and systems that will develop and nurture and grow relationships with people that, by the way, Are slower and harder to do in the beginning, but that's where the exponential effect of a business comes into play.
That's where you create retention and where referrals happen from. This is where you're able to cross sell other products. And this is where people join your team that never [00:42:00] happens for these people's businesses because it's nothing more than a transaction. And so like what, what they're missing is really that human element.
And I get it. It's almost like for the really like high performer, they're caught in this really difficult place where they have this thing. That's just running on all cylinders. And the reality is they would never be able to have the time to even do what I'm proposing with everybody that comes into their business.
But what they have to recognize is what do I want? Cause what the treadmill you're on right now, you'll never get off. You'll never create true freedom in this profession unless you have the foundation of leaders and relationships in your business. All you have is a really well high paying job, which is great.
Like I'm not knocking it. And I'm also not diminishing the amount of skill that it takes to do that, but you're [00:43:00] never going to have a business that runs without you that you could go on vacation for 30 days and check out of your business and not even have to think about it and come back. And that thing hasn't skipped a beat.
That'll never happen. And so like, if you do want to serve people, if you do want freedom, then at some point you have to set off on a different course. And so I learned this,~ um, ~ and this changed our business personally. Complexity. See, we create complexity in our business by adding all of these different tools and systems and things.
That's not how complexity in a business comes from teaching a lot of people how to do simple things. Your business should become more complex for you to manage because you have a lot of people that are just doing the two to three foundational things that build and grow a [00:44:00] business. That's how you get leverage.
That's how you create freedom, but it's a completely different focus. We have to stop looking externally for growth and we have to recognize that you already have here today. Everything you need. To create the sustainable growth that you want in your existing base of customers, in the people that have joined your team and in the people that are already following you on social media, let's start developing processes and skills to better leverage those things and start to organically grow our business from there.
Yes. Oh my goodness. That's so good, Bob. For sure. And I know that that really does touch the heart. I think of anybody that's listening, whether they are in that space where they feel like they're drowning and, you know, and burnout, if you will, but those who feel like they are aspiring towards that, but want another way to do it.
So thank you. I just, I'm so thankful for this conversation and I would love, ~um,~ you know, for you to kind of point people to where they should go if they want [00:45:00] to learn more about love, serve, grow, and who that specifically serves best,~ uh,~ for those that are listening. Yeah, I would say, ~um,~ so if you are someone that really does know that there's gotta be a better way to do this.
I like the one thing that I hear a lot is we'll teach, we'll teach love serve grow to people and, and, and this, I couldn't have said this better at a young, young lady, brand new to this profession. She said, thank you. Thank you for just putting out into the world what you put out into the world because she said, what you did was you let me know that the way that I've always felt in the way that I've always wanted to grow my business.
Is actually okay. And I said, wow, like, that's the thing that motivates me to do. Like, you know, even if there's one person, Heather, that listens to this podcast, that feels validated in these, you know, like has always, like, I know this is [00:46:00] wrong and I want to believe that there's something else out there.
And even if only one of those people hears this and finds that better way because of that, and goes out and does something special, I It was worth it to me. So I would say, ~um, ~The best place to connect with us would probably be our podcast quite frankly because that That that's a good like get to know us.
And so the name of our podcast Is the your virtual upline podcast and ~um, ~I think that would be a really Good place for us to start a relationship with someone and it being in alignment with what we teach. Let's serve Before we try to sell you. And so the podcast is the place to go. I love it. That's where I started.
And when I think about all of the people that I know, I'm going to get emotional that have been blessed by what I've learned from you years ago, back in 2018, when I first listened to the podcast and first decided to dive a little deeper, it's, it's really amazing. And I think that when you can start to focus on the one instead [00:47:00] of the thousands that you hope to gain from whatever it is that you're doing, I just, I think that that's.
That's the starting point. And the fact that you always say yes, when I invite you to do this is, is another blessing. So thank you for spending the time with me, Bob. I think I have already been that one person today. So I hope that I can continue to bless not just thousands, but hopefully millions more to help you continue on that legacy of your initial goal.
And I'm just so, so grateful. Thank you so much. Yeah, you're welcome. And I just want to say this before we go, Heather. ~Um, ~everybody, anybody that listens to this show already knows this cause they know you. ~Um,~ I do this for you without hesitation cause you truly are one of the best success stories that we've ever had in this program.
And when I say success story, you've built an amazing business, but you are the living embodiment of what we teach in terms of a leader. That is loving that is always wanting to serve at a higher level and is Never afraid to [00:48:00] grow and so If you listen to heather's podcast, maybe you're a new listener ~um ~She has she could not possibly have a a more glowing Recommendation that she is she's the kind of person that you need to be following inside of this space So, oh my goodness.
Thank you and right back at you Yeah, awesome. Well, thanks for having me heather. This was a lot of fun You Yes. Thank you so much for being here, Bob.
