111 | Ask the Expert: Brett Blake
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[00:00:00] Hi friends, welcome back to the Called to Lead podcast. You are in for a huge treat today because I have got the. Brett Blake, AKA B2 or B squared as he lets us call him, but he is the author of Renewal for Field Leaders and renewal for actual companies too. I can't remember the name of that book. Cause I haven't quite read it and also Systems Scale.
And he essentially has a background in helping many, many different network marketing companies for. Decades, really, and he's got an incredible experience and the wisdom that he teaches in this book has blessed my life and likely has blessed yours if you've been listening to the podcast lately, because I've been sharing my renewal journey out loud and sharing bits and pieces of how I'm applying his CHISEL acronym of how you can lead your network marketing company.
To renewal. And so we've got the man himself here to share his story here to share some wisdom with us. And I could not be more grateful. So thank you so much, Brett, for being [00:01:00] here. I'm so thrilled to be here, Heather. I, I, you know, I'm a fan of yours and so grateful for all that you do for your team and also for the industry, this podcast.
Thanks for having me. Thank you for acknowledging that. That's definitely my, my goal is really, sometimes there's some hard things in this industry. And I think any of us can acknowledge that, but there's a lot of goodness and a lot of light. And so that's, that's really, as we were talking about the purpose of this podcast is just to.
Just a point to the light and you are certainly one of those and impact that you've had, not only on my business, but on thousands, maybe even millions of people throughout countless companies is, is really, really inspiring. So maybe paint the picture of, of how you got started in network marketing. Give us the backstory.
That's maybe not in your book. Well, I think like most of us, first of all, I feel like a little bit of a counterfeit here because I'm one of those that teach that couldn't do I. You know, my first experience was my roommate came coming back to my, ~uh,~ dorm in college and inviting me to, to [00:02:00] learn about Amway.
And, ~uh,~ I think I was that close to starting that business.~ Uh, ~I was so excited about it. I started talking to people about it, but it wasn't for me at that point in my life. It wasn't till after I graduated. And was looking for an opportunity. ~Um, ~I had a chance to meet Frank Bandersoot, who was the CEO of Melaleuca.
And Frank was looking for some help,~ uh,~ invited me in and it's been a great journey ever since. ~Um,~ I've been in the industry, out of the industry a little bit back and back in the industry. But it's, to me, this is an amazing place. In fact, I had this. Interview last week with a friend of mine. ~Um, ~and he has had remarkable success.
He was an executive. NASDAQ became the CEO of one of the NASDAQ international divisions. And just beyond that, just some really remarkable career achievements and had just recently joined a larger direct selling company. And I was asking him, how did you get here? And what's been your experience [00:03:00] and. He talked about how nervous he was to, to, to get past the, you know, the, in the sense that maybe this is a different type of industry.
And then, as he's joined the company and just found, ~um,~ how it's impacted individuals and given individuals an opportunity, he spoke about being in the Country of Jordan. And he said, you know, I was in Jordan. And in Jordan, it's such a, it's such a, ~um, uh, ~a stratosphere,~ um,~ kind of situation. You have the, the royalty and the, the founding family, and then you actually had this religious divide, and he was a Christian.
He said, when you're a Christian, you're below the poverty level. Like there's the poor and then there are the Christians and their opportunity for upward mobility is almost zero But he said, you know, one of the things that i've seen is that in that for those individuals this Opportunity have a true meritocracy In a direct selling business has created [00:04:00] opportunities for them to be able to pull themselves up And to be able to achieve things that they never thought possible and for him it became Now, the first time I think in his career where he's actually tied his business experience to his religious experience in his faith.
And it's been a really neat thing. Wow. I love that you use the word meritocracy. My husband actually just used that word in kind of coaching our freshman daughter. She plays lacrosse. And she had the opportunity to play and as a freshman and the varsity game against their rival the other day, but she off the field, crying, devastated that she didn't play more and just shocked and, and frustrated.
And he used that word. He said, honey, I hate to tell it to you, but this is, this is a meritocracy. And if you want to play on that field, it doesn't matter if you're a freshman or not, you got to get good. You got to practice. You got to do the work. And, you know, she does have some natural talent there, but you, but you have to, you have to, to do the things.
And I think in business and especially in [00:05:00] network marketing, and especially as believers in network marketing, I love that because we, any of us, anybody listening, whether they're brand new, whether they, you know, are still at the first rank in their company, they can essentially achieve anything that the Lord has planned for them in this business.
If they follow his wisdom, follow the strategies that have been proven effective long before social media. Long before covid. And I just think people just get get in their head or they get, you know, I don't know. They just get it in their head, I think. And so I would love for you to kind of hit that head on because I know that we're in a different world now, post covid post social media.
But yet the life cycles of the companies that you've worked with and talk about Melaleuca, like they're experiencing another, I feel like renewal, you know, even right now, but for forever. So talk about a little bit more about that. The life cycles of companies. Yeah, it's interesting. ~Um, ~as I pondered and thought about the industry in preparation to write this book, I realized in my [00:06:00] career, I'd kind of gone through this early stages of success and success and success.
~Um, ~and I thought that, that I had figured out something that no one else had figured out. And then,~ um, ~went to a company where I didn't see success and, and realized, okay, well, you know, maybe it's not all bubble gum and flowers and roses and, and, ~um, uh, ~and unicorns. And sure enough, as I went back and did research, it was surprising for me to see how many companies, almost every company who has a growth curve and then experiences a downturn.
~Um, ~so that was instructive for me to kind of understand that and see that and to be able to put my personal perspective, ~um,~ I mean, my personal experience into perspective. But what's been interesting is, as you know, I took a time off. I took a sabbatical. I kind of left and literally left. ~Um,~ I didn't have any connection.
Didn't really pay attention to anything that's happening in the industry. And went and [00:07:00] served for three years, ~um, ~as a mission leader, ~uh,~ and just had an amazing experience with all these young volunteers who had given up time in their life to come out and serve. And this is just smack dab in the middle of COVID.
~Um,~ when I got there, all of our missionaries were in apartments, were there for many, many weeks without being able to leave their apartments. And, and, ~uh,~ so it was a whole different experience. But when I came back in,~ um,~ 2023 and in July, it started. ~Um, ~one of the first thing I did in the fall is I just started reaching out to many CEOs who I'd known and others who I hadn't known, and I just wanted to go and talk, and they were so generous with their time.
~Um, ~I went from, from company to company and, and met with several CEOs, and, ~um,~ they were interested in knowing what I had done for the last three years. I was interested in knowing from them what had happened in the industry. I compare. COVID to being in a small farm town on I 80 [00:08:00] in the middle of Nebraska and owning an inn.
That has the average, you know, maybe one or two guests at night in the end, but COVID was like having a snowstorm that's that shut down the freeway and all of a sudden the end was full every night until the snow melted and and ~um,~ then the innkeeper decided he was going to hold his manager accountable for those numbers that happened during COVID for the rest of the year.
That manager's career and the manager always felt down and depressed and discouraged as he compared him his experience during that snowstorm to the sunny days when everyone just drives right past his town. And it's hard for us to kind of remember that. Stores shut down and people were looking for, ~uh,~ ways to shop and to use their time.
And for many individuals, they were afraid of [00:09:00] what was happening with their careers and not certain whether their main income would still be there for them. And I think it's easy for us to see this bubble that happened in the industry where there was all of these new sales dollars that came into the industry.
And we had many artificially highs, if you will.~ Um, ~so we, we experienced that and appreciated that and spent that money, but it's hard for us to go back and say, yeah, but that was really Just a unique unicorn kind of experience in the industry and not something we should compare ourselves. I noticed I was so amazed and and, ~um, ~impressed that on your February 16th episode, you actually shared your January numbers like nobody does that other.
That was awesome. Good for you. ~Um,~ but you talked a little bit there about,~ um,~ the ranks those individuals who are paid at their highest rank. And I almost, if I [00:10:00] were you, I would go and I would adjust that and say, during those COVID years, you're going to have individuals who peaked rank, had a peak rank, but I'd go back and I'd say, where were they before COVID and let that be their highest rank and any ranks that took place during COVID.
It's just kind of an outlier. It was fun. It was exciting. But re bench, benchmark your team against where you were before COVID. At the beginning of 2020 or the end of 2019 and that let that be your starting point. I think it's interesting because I looked at some numbers and is presented to me by two different sources that showed that we're we've had a downturn in the industry.
10 percent followed by a 6 percent or an 8 percent decline and, ~um,~ and and individuals feel like, oh, wow, the channel has a Had this huge decline in sales. And yet the [00:11:00] truth is, is that if you compare 2023, the latest numbers with 2019, the industry's up 6%. And that's not huge. I mean, because we jumped to four.
The industry was 35 billion in the U. S. Jump to 42 billion and down to an estimated 20 37 billion in 2023. But but we we look at the down the last two years, but we probably should just erase that period of time. 2020 2021 2022 and look at 2019 versus 2023 and say, Okay, where? Where are we? And that kind of becomes our new benchmark, and we're grateful for that volume.
But if we allow that to inform us, we're going to be in trouble. And what I see is that there's a lot, there's discouragement. I mean, I track over 200 companies, and only 22 companies grew during that period of time. And [00:12:00] I, remarkable to see that what's happened.~ Um, ~but that means that 90 percent of the companies have experienced a decline.
And what I see is that leaders. Get discouraged with where they are, and they feel like somehow I'm going to have a better experience in the next company, and they get to the next company and realize, Oh, my word, I'm in the same decline. I'm just in a different brand than I was before without the support and the friendships and the big this the team that I had in my previous company.
So I go, I went off. I'm sorry, but the 2023 2023. I think it's the beginning of, of renewal for the industry and is a good place to kind of start, start and say, where are we really? And how do we move forward? I love that advice. And I know we were chatting about those, those January numbers and I'll continue.
I'm going to share all year long, regardless of how good, how not great. I'm going to be doing it. I'm committing. [00:13:00] So stay tuned for more, ~uh,~ for more of those numbers, for sure. Cause I, I, I feel like it, it can, I know for me, it's helpful to know what to expect in, ~um, ~in the realities of what a leader looks like, whether it is in our company or in another company.
And so, ~uh, ~I'm going to, I'm going to keep it coming, but I think it's interesting because you shouted out that we had or. As we were chatting, we had 458 enrollments in January, which was our second highest ever. Well, the first was right post COVID. It was 2021. And so it actually is very encouraging to me and hopefully can be encouraging to the team that if you were to just erase those years.
That we really are seeing growth, and I know that that isn't necessarily seen on, on every single leader's team within SAINT, but I also think that a lot of that is that discouragement or the lack of hope or the frustration for the things that feel out of their control. So in your CHISEL acronym, which I've been, my listeners know it pretty dang well, but of course we have CASH, HOPE, [00:14:00] innovations, systems, right?
Yeah. But also systems,~ um,~ E is expansion, which is going to be huge for Saint and L is leadership. So I think that hope piece is, is definitely has been the big factor in the decline, first of all, for the people who don't have it, but also I think is being felt pretty strongly right now, at least in our company.
And maybe the cool thing about a podcast is it lives on for years and it could be that someone in another company is listening to this going through that shakeout phase or in a down phase of whatever business they're in. So how can you. Bring back that hope if, if you've lost it yourself or your team has lost it.
Well, I think part of it is just understanding context, right? Part of the challenge with indirect selling is for, for many people. In fact, the majority of direct sellers, wherever company they're with now is their first. So all they know is what they've they're experiencing this first experience in life It's like if you go back to your dating relationship, it's your it's [00:15:00] your first boyfriend~ Uh,~ your first girlfriend is feels like the one and and a very few people End up marrying their love the first person they dated, right?
But it's not until you break up with that that person you realize okay there there's probably other people to see that I I could be compatible with ~um,~ but And we are for first love affair in direct selling sometimes becomes similar and it becomes all consuming. And when things don't go as we thought that they should, we don't have enough experience to be able to compare and to contrast.
And so, ~um, you know, ~I think what you're doing and educating individuals and helping them understand, see that, hey. Whether it's a company or an individual business within a company, you have cycles of business that, and it doesn't matter if it's direct sales or any other company. I mean, some of us who've lived a while can go back and think about, ~um,~ there was a book called good to great that was out there and, and in that [00:16:00] book.
~Um, ~there was all of these companies that had been successful forever, and they had all of these ups and downs. And I bet if you go back and you look at that list of companies, you'd be surprised at how many have gone through a downturn since being defined as kind of the end all be all in terms of companies, ~um, ~things change, industries change, and just understanding that having context.
is really important. But the other thing I think about it, so I, I, when I came back, it was interesting. One of the first conversations I had was with somebody who had been in the industry for a very, very long time and has always been very hopeful, but Was in a kind of a funk was actually discouraged and kind of doubting whether or not the channel was going to be around for a while.
And I spent a lot of time thinking about that and asking questions about that. And then, ~um, ~somebody showed me an article by the U S surgeon general that said that, ~um, ~We have a epidemic of [00:17:00] loneliness in the United States, and that epidemic of loneliness was a greater concern than smoking in terms of its impact on life and reducing individuals life.
And as I contemplated that and thought about that post COVID, ~Um,~ and realize, you know, we're, we're quote, more connected than ever before with, you know, iPhones and androids and social media and everything we have, and yet there's a growing concern of about just feeling loneliness and.~ Uh,~ you know, I think you and I are believers.
We would say that that probably is a separation from the relationship with Christ and Not knowing him and I don't know there's anything that will fill that void like having a prayerful daily meditation and relationship with the savior but ~um ~but direct selling Is a great model, even if it's not [00:18:00] an economic model because of the kinds of relationships that you can form and friendships you can form.
And, ~um,~ when it's built on relationships, that great things happen. ~Um,~ I look at what's happened in, in 2023 and, or 2020 as an industry, we all started experiencing and, and experimenting with. New ways of selling. There's a lot of influencer and affiliate marketing that crept into the space, and some are continuing to be successful in that.
But if you will, we went away from the roots of direct selling, which is relationship based, and we tried to compete on a mass marketing basis. And we've kind of left our home field and wondered why we're not having the same success we were having when we were on our home field. And so I, I go and I've talked to a lot of CEOs and they're like, ah, things are down and we don't know how to change them.
And I said, well, you tried to change your entire [00:19:00] business. You tried an experiment. Why don't you just admit that your experiment didn't work and go back to blocking and tackling what used to be working and see what that does for you. I was in a meeting on a similar topic and and one of my friends who had mentioned the book Milan Jensen, who is CEO of Womankind.
Milan said, you know, I wonder when we will understand the truth. And she said it this way that the truth is that what you know
I thought, that is powerful. You know, we're all trying to recreate the business and do different things. But when we go back to, and I think you've gone through this, right? Oh yeah. Yeah, when you go back to what worked. And realize, okay, maybe I don't have to be a social media superstar. Maybe I can just take care of [00:20:00] customers and care about making sure that I provide great products for them.
And, and maybe I can be honest with, with individuals about the good and the bad, and it's a business and it's not always up. ~Um, ~so to me, I hope it start, there's an education element with hope. And the other part is. Just like anything else in life, we just can't continue to, to allow each other to be negative and just to point the negative.
We, I don't know why, but media has shown us that people seem to respond to the negatives. ~Um, ~I did an interesting, ~uh, ~when I was in a mission leader, I had two of my, I had two assistants. So, we'd always choose two of the young missionaries to be my assistants. And these are two young men and 20 something years old, very little experience.
They came to me, ~Uh~ in the middle of covid in november and said president they call me president. I love that I wish my wife would call me president. Just kidding I tried to get my kids too. They never would [00:21:00] but ~um, ~they said hey we were concerned because so many of the missionaries are discouraged And I knew that that wasn't true because I interviewed every single missionary 230 missionaries I interviewed them every six weeks, and it took me two weeks straight.
I'd start early in the morning, I'd go late at night, just one on one with each one of them. And I knew that that wasn't the case, but I knew we had pockets. So I invited them to my home, and in my home I had a board with pictures of every single missionary. And I invited my wife into the room, and we spent two or three hours, and I went through one by one.
And I talked about every individual. And how they were feeling and what was happening. And I asked him to keep track of those that were discouraged when they did. And,~ um, ~cause I told him the beginning, I don't know, I haven't counted this, but it's going to be somewhere between one and five that will be discouraged.
Right. And,~ uh,~ and,~ uh,~ by [00:22:00] the time we were done, it was almost exactly one in five. And, and,~ uh,~ I, if you're not careful, you'll hear the one in five because they're the, they speak louder usually than the four and five, and you'll begin to use words like everyone's discouraged. Everyone's depressed.
Everyone's having a hard time. And I taught these young, young leaders. I said, that isn't true. And you can't let it be true. And you can't let other leaders think it was true. It was interesting. Similarly, at the same time, I had a young missionary who had heard from one of the missionaries that they were discouraged.
And thought that the best thing that, that, that missionary could do was to bring everybody together. So it was on a Saturday, and he, and he was responsible for about 12 missionaries and brought all 12 missionaries together. And said, I know you're all discouraged. I know you're having a hard time. Will you just go around the room?
We're gonna let, we want to hear you. And we want you to tell us how you're feeling. [00:23:00] And in an interview yet after that with several of the missionaries, they, they said, You know, to be honest with you, I really wasn't feeling discouraged. But when I got in that room and started listening to everyone else, I kind of started thinking, yeah, that's bad.
That's I'm feeling like that. And they started identifying all the reasons that they were discouraged and we have this tendency to try to outdo each other about how badly we're doing, right? It's like, oh, that's really terrible. But you know what happened to me?~ Uh, and ~and we have a tendency to try to one up ourselves.
I think we just have to be careful in a relationship business. ~Um,~ that we don't allow, ~um,~ the one to lead us to conclude that the other five or the other four are also down and discouraged. And that's why as leaders, and you mentioned this before, it's just so important that you go find the stories of the four.
We, we talk about those, we amplify those. And we share those often. I don't [00:24:00] know if that helps either, but it helps. It helps so much. Cause I think anyone who's in a group chat can attest that there's always, I know in the book, ~uh,~ you went in the locker room first. That's another really great book that I love.
It talks about energy vampires. And like you said, a lot of times they're there, they're the noisy ones, or my husband will call them,~ um, ~crabs. It's like crabs in a bucket where one might try to climb out of the bucket, but yet one of the other crabs gets, you know, pulls it back down into the bucket. And so, you know, I think, I think anyone can relate to that where they're, they're doing great.
They're having a great day. Actually, our, Um, I think I can just speak candidly because I do this all the time, but on our birthday, ~uh,~ in January, when we had that great day of enrollments, we also launched a ton of new products. It was very exciting. It was a very successful launch. So successful. In fact, that we sold out of multiple products by the middle of the day.
And you would have thought in some of these groups, the world was ending. And I kind of, and, and again, not, not to disparage other people's feelings. And I know it's frustrating to not have the [00:25:00] product to sell, but at the same time, I'm like, gosh, you know, that number one means our company made smart inventory investments that they didn't overbuy.
Cause as a former boutique owner, inventory management is by far the hardest. Especially in a, an up and down rollercoaster of a market where you don't know what to expect with a, with a launch. And, you know, number two, you know, selling out that shows that there's a high demand for the product, but yet, you know, we can only kind of focus on the negatives.
And it was very clear that the one in five, especially the ones who were already looking for the problems, they were already maybe having a hard time in their business and. And they probably didn't mean to be crabs, but they were latching on to the negative and then trying to kind of pull everybody else into that.
And, and it was, it was challenging, even though it was a really great sales day and a really great day of bringing on a ton of new people who are very excited about starting their, their business here. So I know resonate with a lot of the listeners for sure. [00:26:00] You know, it's interesting. Go ahead. You go ahead.
I won't forget what, what I definitely want to talk about, but you go, you go first. Okay. I was going to say. You know, when we go and we find new artists in, ~uh,~ in your business,~ uh,~ or new associates on their business, most of the time, none of them are actually looking to be a business owner, right? They accidentally stumble on to this opportunity.
And for some, it is the right thing. And for others, they want it to be the right thing. And yet, if you're the sponsor, you don't want to lose a single person who enrolls. And yet the truth is, Is that makeup may not be the right thing for some for individuals, right? Fitness may not be the right thing for certain individuals and business may not be the right thing at that time for individuals and rather than kind of allowing individuals to have their experience to come in and try it and recognize [00:27:00] that.
For some, it'll work out. For some, it won't. We're grateful for any contribution that somebody made in the short term. We kind of want to hold on and we measure in terms of how many people left us and, right, and how, like, and the failure. And part of that, I think, is we put individuals into a situation where they feel like they have to defend their decision not to continue forward.
~Uh, ~and they, they, they get angry or they fight in a way or they say things on the way out. That kind of justifies them wanting to leave. And perhaps we can figure out how to be a little bit more accepting in terms of. You know, some will, some won't. So what we kind of continue to move forward. And, and we hope that those leave will, they're still going to use makeup and hopefully there'll be our customers forever.
I mean, it's funny, you and I have had this conversation. There's nothing fundamentally different in saints products and how [00:28:00] good they are. So there's really nothing that would say. Oh, the, the, the tide has changed, right? And nobody is using, ~uh,~ pagers anymore. I mean, if you were in the pager business, I can understand being down and discouraged, right?
People are still using makeup and they're going to continue to use makeup and great makeup is going to continue to be in high demand. And companies that are having individual care about the user. It's what everybody wants. Like everybody wants the Mayberry shopping experience where you go into the store, they know your name and they care about you.
And they know what you've purchased in the past. And direct selling is like one of the last places where you can have that individual kind of shopping experience. And people are saying it's going out of business. I mean, no way. As AI drives more in, ~um,~ automation and less personalization. [00:29:00] I mean, it'll be customized, but not personal.
Right? An industry where individuals care and there's relationship will always, always have growth. So it, it, then kind of, we have to stop and say what you're doing and that is like, what are we doing that's not sustainable? And what are we doing that we can improve and be better at? And, ~um,~ so anyway, I'm on my soapbox.
You had a question that you want to talk about? That was the most perfect, perfect lead into one of the, one of the things I wanted to talk about, and it wasn't even something I planned to talk about, but I definitely want to bring it because I actually did walk away from social media entirely a little, I guess it was actually, was it two years ago?
Gosh, I think it was. It was two years ago. That is wild. And I went away for an entire year. ~Um, ~and a part of the reason that I did it was because I was so frustrated at the, ~uh,~ disconnect that I saw from the traditional network marketing strategies that have been proven [00:30:00] to work from people like Jim Rohn, ~um, ~you know, or I'm sure like you're, you're, CEO of Melaleuca.
I mean, there are just things like Milan says that we know what works and it works, but then around that time, so it was, yeah, about two years ago was when social selling and that buzzword started to take off and I, and I actually did an entire podcast episode. I'll, I'll have to send it to you. I would love to get your thoughts and maybe do a revisit two years, two years later on, on this podcast, but I talked about the differences between the two.
And there's a, there's a pretty strong, pretty strong difference with. With this whole influencer marketing. And I think, honestly, it, in my opinion, and I haven't really heard other people say this, and I'm definitely curious to get your insight and experience on this, but I think this social selling affiliate marketing attraction marketing has hurt the industry and is a part of the decline because you can't, you can't create that Mayberry experience in mass.
You can't build relationships with having 100, 000 followers or selling 100, 000 worth of makeup. [00:31:00] And it's really hard selling 10, 000 worth of makeup, which is one of the reasons why I'm thrilled with just slow and steady growth with my own sales and getting to that highest commission bracket, which is another reason why I'm not really on social is I don't really want to grow a big following online because I don't want that volume.
I want to be able to have that relationship with the people that, that do entrust me to be their saint artist. I would love to know your thoughts on that, you know, the kind of social selling versus network marketing, if I'm so bold, and how you think that rise of the influencer has impacted the industry.
Yeah, it's really interesting right now. We're in this, there's this time and place. I saw McKenzie published an article recently that said 54 percent of Gen Z and millennials want to be influencers. Then I saw also some research that showed that. Multilevel marketing only had one other type of selling that had as negative of a perspective, and that was affiliate marketing, which was interesting.[00:32:00]
And yet, ~um, ~when you looked at direct selling and network marketing, which we think is the same thing, those are all three, three things. Those had a very high acceptance rate.~ Um, ~and as as,~ um,~ as acceptable as anything else that's out there s O. It's interesting. What you call things is interesting. It's interesting.
People are aspiring for that. But there's something about that. This is also kind of grading on people right now. ~Um, ~you know, I, we had a tremendous success at Beachbody when Facebook began to grow and the algorithms changed for Beachbody and some of the top sellers of Beachbody struggled when those algorithms changed.
But those who are following our core concept of using social media as a tool for connectedness and they were, they had coach, they were coaching teams, helping the individuals lose weight, having, holding each other, each other accountable. They continue to have success, had no problem. When [00:33:00] you think of social selling, when you think of affiliate marketing, when you think of Facebook marketing as it was with Jamboree Nails and Unique and Beachbody in the day and a little bit in Rodana Fields.
The algorithms of those companies changed the industry dramatically. And I think it's important to understand that even those companies that are having success right now with affiliate marketing, if I'm, if I own TikTok, if I own Instagram, if I own Facebook, the only thing I care about is monetizing the platform for me, the owner of the platform.
And I'm okay allowing other individuals to monetize my platform. As long as it's driving eyeballs. But when the day comes that I can make a tweet to the algorithm and make sure that I get that revenue and that influencer doesn't get that revenue, I'm going to do it. And so I think it's really [00:34:00] instructive for us to understand what happened with Facebook will happen with tick tock.
And that is that the owner of the platform is going to change the eventually change the platform so that they're the big winners. Now, will that completely ruin affiliate marketing as we know it today or influence marketing as we know it today? I don't know. I doubt it. There's something that we learn about that.
Amazon has learned and others have learned that when you create a platform that allows other people to make money, it increases the number of eyeballs and you've got more of a business there. So they're not going to destroy it altogether. ~Um, it's, ~it's yeah. It worries me to be beholden to anything that I can't control in a significant way, right?
So to me, using Instagram, using these tools to do some of the things you're doing here to educate, to kind of inform, [00:35:00] to build relationships, to strengthen relationships, Those are the kinds of innovations we need to think about using a I to help us be smarter about following up with our customers about knowing kind of they've used these products.
They probably would like these products. There's things that a I can help us mass customize and and and personalize in ways that would take us a lot of time and it can reduce reduce our energies. But I'm I'm still very much into this. The industry is, ~um, ~Industry, I think, has lots of legs. These short term strategies, I think, have failed us.
~Um, ~and I think it's hard for many executives in the industry and many leaders in the industry to see how it's hurt. And we all want to be, there is social pressure for all of us to be on the leading edge of technology. So if you're a [00:36:00] CEO and executive of a direct selling company, you kind of feel like somehow I have to innovate.
I have to show that I'm using these tools wisely and smartly that I'm on the edge of these things. So that, that kind of dynamics I think is hurting us in ways, ~um,~ that we'll figure out and we'll get through. ~Um, ~I don't think, I think the industry is in for continued decline. For as long as we keep chasing,~ um, ~these non relationship based selling, ~um, ~tools.
But when we finally realize how to use these tools to strengthen relationships in the selling process, I think you're going to see growth again and in remarkable ways. I think that makes so much sense. And it's actually kind of a perfect segue for next month. I'm going to be talking about the I innovations.
Yeah. And I think that. At its core, it sounds like social media and then, of course, AI that's coming right now on the on the heels of it. It's such a buzzword. All they are is innovations for ways to do the business [00:37:00] principles that have worked for forever. And I think people try to make that the business, but it's it's, you know, social media.
Well, that is a business and that's called affiliate marketing, which is a whole other, like you said, that's a whole other business model. But in network marketing, you have to look at social media as an innovation. That's always going to be changing and adapting and how you can, like you said, apply it to the back to basics principles that, that had been proven effective with network marketing.
And I, and I think I know that there's some good there, which is one of the reasons why I. Stepped back into social. I didn't want to exemplify what it looked like to ignore. I had my little four eyes back in the day, but I still still believe in those ignore influencer investment strategy. ~Um,~ and now,~ uh,~ integrate, that's what I am.
The integrate strategy of just being a human online, you know, you know, whatever it is, your new book or, you know, things like that. And so, you know, the ignore strategy, in my opinion, is just as hard, if not harder than the influencer strategy. But I think only about 1 percent of people can really achieve.
Either of [00:38:00] those and do what it takes. So then, of course, what I practice and what you what you talk about, it's for the other 98 percent of us, you know, that want to know how to how to leverage it. So I'm excited to kind of kind of talk more about that. But I want to go back to something that you mentioned.
~Um, ~When you talked about the epidemic of loneliness, it reminded me of a sermon, ~uh,~ in our church where they talked about that exact same study. And it talked about the fact that that's tied to society's, the new found self focus that so much of, and I'm a big fan of personal development. Don't get me wrong.
~Um, ~and all the business and wisdom out there is found found in the word. ~Um,~ but I think. Especially when it comes to the social selling influence or marketing or or even just focusing on being the highest seller out there or the highest enroller out there, it is it's so self focused because you're really the only one that's benefiting when I see so many of their teams lose hope.
In their business, because they feel like they could never do what their [00:39:00] mentor did. And so it almost discourages them to do the actions to have the small wins that can bring in hundreds of dollars for their family, if not thousands of dollars for their family. It was a big deal that this business model can do.
So have you seen that, that the, the. The focus on self and how that has influenced this, this business model versus focusing on others or the relationship side, which brings the fulfillment, which makes this business so amazing that, when you can focus on that. Yeah, that's so wise.~ Um,~ you know, I think that we always, there's this, there's this need always to kind of say, I want to take care of myself.
I remember as a, as a freshman in college, ~um,~ I lived off campus. My roommate, ~um, ~was my age, but decided to go to another university and left me with four other roommates who are all older than me and all kind of buddies. And I just remember being so lonely my freshman year [00:40:00] and feeling so sorry for myself.
~Um, ~I remember, ~um, ~my second half of the year in January, I moved on campus and thought that would solve all my problems. But when I got on campus. They, they had their own friendships. They had their own relationships. I had a walk man at the time. I remember just listening to music and walking to my classes and finally had an RA who came in and said, you know what you need?
And I said, well, yeah, I was thinking, I know I need a friend. I need all this stuff because you need to go serve. And I was like, wow. Okay. And, ~uh,~ so he convinced me to go down on Thursday mornings to the pool to a program called adaptive aquatics and went down and I was a little bit late. And, and, ~um,~ they, they, all of the, the students, they line up on one side and on the other side, they had all these special Olympic athletes.
And as soon as they would say, go. All the students would go over there and they'd get the most able athletes. And I was the last one because I was just trying to figure out my way. And when I got there, the [00:41:00] only athlete that was there was, ~uh,~ a girl named by the name of Brandy and Brandy was prostrate in a chair and drooling out of her mouth and couldn't, it was non communicative.
And I was terrified. Like I had never in my life. Had a relationship with someone that was as disabled as Brandy. And I remember getting in the pool and it was cold cause it was like, like this is the competition pool and they kept it at a cool temperature and they handed Brandy to me and Brandy just started screaming and yelling and crying.
And I remember You know, at that age, you're like trying to impress all the girls. And I was like, not important. No one was impressed with me because my athlete was just crying. And, and I remember just bouncing her and doing whatever I thought I could do. And by the time that that day was over, I was like, okay, next time I'm going to get there earlier.
And, ~uh,~ that's how selfish I was. I'm, I'm going to get there earlier. Cause I'm gonna find someone who's more fun to play with. And [00:42:00] the next time I got there, the, the teacher was so smart. She came out and she goes, Oh, I'm so glad you're here. Brandy's couldn't, can't wait to see you. So I went back and ended up with Brandy again.
And she was a little bit better. And I remember a week or two later, I missed, and I came and the teacher said, we missed you, Brandy. Didn't have anybody to play with. And then I felt so terrible by the end of that semester, Brandy was splashing and smiling and what I thought was non communicative was not true.
She, she was expressive and, and, and, ~uh,~ Brandy changed me. In a remarkable way. I thought I was there to go serve her. Turns out that she was there to serve me and, ~and, uh,~ you know, I, everything good in my life came out of my relationship with Brandy. I don't know where she is. But I went on a mission at that age, came back two years later, [00:43:00] and the first thing I did is get back involved in Special Olympics.
And I ended up being asked to run the Special Olympic Games, and with 2, 500 athletes and volunteers, it's a big event. And from then I met all these people and I was asked to run for student body president, which I never thought I would. I mean, this is the lonely kid with my headsets walking around with no, not a friend in the world my freshman year.
~Um, ~when I was, ~um, ~when I was elected student president of school, I was in the office of the outgoing president. I said, what are you going to do? And he said, I'm going to go to Harvard business school. And I'm like, You're gonna what? You're gonna go to Harvard Business School? I never in my life even thought of Harvard.
Like, I thought that was what the royalty went to. And, and, ~um,~ he said, yeah, they, they like student leaders. And in fact, everyone who's applied who's been a student leader has been accepted. And I'm like, I was dating my wife, Erin, at the time I remember going back and saying, Erin, do you know [00:44:00] what? Like, there's an opportunity for us to go to Harvard.
Most people would have run for student body president to go to Harvard, right? Like I had no clue. I just had such an amazing experience with Brandy that I wanted other people to have that experience. And all of that led me on a path that was completely unexpected and literally changed my life in the most remarkable way.
And, ~uh,~ so, if you look at the way the Lord works, He never, never, it never works like we think they're going to work, right? When Elisha came to mom, and mom was there to take care of her and her son, and he says, you know, feed me, and she's like, I have one morsel, I'm just ready, I'm preparing for my son and I to die of starvation.
And Elisha said, no, no, before you take care of your family, just take care of me, and I [00:45:00] promise you that your meal will never~ Um,~ be, be consumed before the rain, right? And then,~ uh, ~and then her, when her son dies, the fact that she had Elisha there in her house to heal him and to bring him back was the greatest blessing.
And the, let's have the Lord bless us. We, we always think that it's going to be the way to take care of ourselves and our needs. Is to focus on our needs. And even when it's like we have the last more more so,~ um,~ you know, the real, the real answers in life is to turn outward, be able to help us and it works in business in remarkable ways.
And it works in life in remarkable ways. And,~ uh,~ so I, I love what you said. And I love the insight you you've developed. We used to talk about this and you developed it because of your personal experiences.~ Um, ~and I think that. Yeah. Leaders who reconnect to, [00:46:00] I'm going to help as many people as I can get what they want.
And by doing that. Inadvertently, I'll get what I want. And by the way, you really have to connect to them because if you're doing it just to get what you want, they know it and it doesn't work the same. And they're done that too, right? Unfortunately. Wow. Well, I, I can't even believe, first of all, the timing of how the Lord works.
It's, it's really, it's crazy to me. I actually have a early morning, ~uh,~ Bible study. Here on every other Monday, and we were literally just talking about that, that the timing of, of his word, especially, and I, we actually just read, we're doing the Bible recap where it's reading through the Bible in a year.
And we just got through those passages with Elisha, which is just timing is crazy. ~Um, ~also just this morning, I was talking with a dear friend who is fostering,~ uh, ~and she just got her first placement and, ~uh,~ she, she said to me. The [00:47:00] love that she feels for that child already is just, is so amazing. And, and I mean, it just, it, it, it just moved me because it, I think it's Psalm, I think it's Psalm 37 something, but it's the Lord will give you the desires of your heart.
And so many people, you know, twist that and think like, Oh, he's, you know, he's going to give me, it's like a magic genie. Give you the desire to go hang out with Brandy, you, you know, the desire to, you know, to, to take on the task of running for class president. And then, you know, in turn of being obedient and that and seeking him number one, but also serving his people, the least of these.
And, you know, especially,~ uh,~ widows and orphans, as he talks about in James, you know, it's, he, he will also give you the desires of your heart. You never even knew you had like something like Harvard. And so it's just. On the one hand, it's so simple on the other hand, it's so hard. And I know everybody listening to this has, has desires that some of them are from the Lord.
[00:48:00] Some of them might be from there, you know, someone telling them they need to do this, but so much of what you shared today is just so deep. So, so, so, so good. And I can't, I cannot thank you enough. ~Um, ~I know I was about to lose it there for a second. So thank you for sharing that story. And thank you just for your message.
Thanks, Heather. This has been fun. I'm so excited about what you're doing with your team. I just, you're an inspirational leader and, ~uh,~ you're, you're modeling what you're asking others to do, which is really awesome. So keep it up. Thanks for letting me join you today. I sure will. And y'all make sure if you haven't already, you got to buy.
It's not on audible yet, but I know it's kind of blurry, but go definitely check out renewal for field leaders. And again, I would read this first and then do system scale, would you say? Because yeah, this is a little bit more, a little bit more targeted towards the corporate level, right. But certainly applicable for higher level leaders, would you say?
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And anything else, where can they find [00:49:00] you, ~um, ~or follow along on, on your journey? I don't know. I, I, I, I am the worst at social media. I fall start a little bit and then I stop a little bit and I'm out there somewhere. And, and,~ uh,~ but just keep falling Heather. That's probably the best.
Okay. Don't worry. I'll keep them. Keep them posted. And I know you do. You do have a website and. Yeah, but I, I cannot thank you enough and I just, I'm grateful for Jody Watkins, who is the one that recommended this book. I, I'll have to make sure to send her this podcast 'cause she'll say, wow, that was really full circle
But again, thank you, Jody. Jody, right? Yeah. Jody with Rodan and Fields. She's the top leader. Thank you, Jody. So, yeah. ~Um, ~but anyway, thank you so much for everything you've done for me and for our team and for, ~uh,~ for everybody listening. You are such a blessing and I'm grateful for this conversation.
