56 | Lessons from a Top Leader: Sharing My Story as a Recovering Achiever - Interview Replay with Helen Thacker of the Millionaire Mindset Women Podcast
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Hey friends. And welcome back to the call to lead podcast. So I'm actually really excited for this week's episode. As I am going to be replaying an interview that I did on Helen Bakker from the millionaire mindset women podcast. Where Helen and I have this really, really awesome, authentic conversation about all things, network marketing, including trying to build a, navigate a business.
With a limiting role on social media. But also I share some things with her. She asked me some really good questions and I actually share some things that I've never shared on this podcast before. And I kind of dive deep into a story around the Enneagram specifically that kind of sent me into a bit of a shame spiral early on in my network marketing career.
And so I don't think you're going to want to miss this episode. And it's, it's a really cool way for me to both share a little bit more about my story, but also just continue. The conversation that we've been chatting about all year, which is just how to build your network marketing business in a way that's unique and different and honors who you are and who you're meant to be. So can't wait for you all to dive into the episode with the interview, replay from Helen and make sure to go check out her podcast as well.
The millionaire mindset women podcast.
Helen: Okay, everybody. I have another incredible network marketing leader to introduce you all to today. Heather Bird. Beautiful, Heather, all the way from Savannah in Georgia in the us. Oh, we've got so much to talk about. We have so much in common. We've actually just been recording a podcast where I was a guest on her podcast called To Lead.
So we've had so many amazing conversations already, so much in common, and I really wanted to introduce her to you guys. She is all about being authentically you and finding the joy in what you do as a network marketer. So six years experience in the industry. Like I said, go and find a podcast call to lead.
But like me, she's been an entrepreneur for coming up for 20 years, and I just really wanted to have a really great conversation with Heather about being a successful businesswoman and how to run a joyful network marketing company. So thank you so much, Heather. Welcome to the
Heather: podcast. Oh my goodness.
Thank you so much for having me. I feel like I have a new business. Bestie . Absolutely. That's fun. ,
Helen: we have so connected cuz there's just so much that we have to say that we feel the same about and it's yeah, it's fantastic. So tell everybody about your journey. I'd love for them to hear, you know, your entrepreneurial journey about how you've ended up in network marketing and all the, all the things.
Heather: Sure. So who I am, I feel like I've been my entire life, which is someone who's very ambitious, very driven and obsessed with fashion and beauty. And so when I went to college at the University of Georgia here in the US I studied fashion merchandising. I knew from working in the retail world that I loved that.
So I actually opened my boutique, a boutique in Savannah, Georgia. Fresh out of college at the age of 21 . Wow. Which was 20 years ago. I just turned 41 actually today. And that be best. I have a . That's amazing. . You know, it's fun to be able to spend it, you know, chatting about the things that I love. So so I you know, was always very entrepreneurial minded.
Definitely always very driven. and I actually had that that boutique business that actually I opened a bridal shop in there. I had three boutiques in Savannah. We were voted Best Women's store best boutique, best bridal shop for many, many, many years. But like many small business owners, I was.
Paying myself last, going through the recession of 2008 was incredibly difficult. I wound up, that was, I opened my bridal shop in 2006. That was the first down month I'd ever had at my boutique that had been open for about three years. And I was trying to grow that business alongside my, you know, my thriving business.
That was tanking once the recession hit and it was, it was a challenge. So I actually wound up racking up tons of debt that I spent years trying to kind of come out of. Trying to balance being a mama. I've got two beautiful girls. That, you know, I was dropping off at daycare working more than full-time and kind of, I think I had that dream job that people think that boutique owners have, but in reality, I had no freedom.
I was burning the candle at both ends and it was just feeding this, this kind of unhealthy side of, of who I really was. So enter into 2017 when the makeup company that I. Already using and loving and frankly sharing with everybody I knew decided to enter into the network marketing. I was like, are you kidding me?
This is incredible. Because I'd had experience in a prior company another, another makeup related network marketing company that maybe wasn't the best fit for me. It's actually still an amazing company, but it just didn't fit in with, with with my strengths and my skillsets and my gifts. , however, St.
Beauty, it was called mascara at the time, and unfortunately it's not in the UK yet. just in the US and Canada, this . But our, our CEO e essentially created that business model for people just like me who were already loving the product but wanted to bring an additional income stream into their busy life as a mama or a working woman.
And so I was. I was all in. I didn't know what it was really gonna look like. I understood the opportunity that was with it. It was a brand new company at the time, so we had to figure everything out. But coming up on six years later, I am just so grateful for the opportunity and all the, not even so easy things that have happened in this business.
But I've, I've built a large team and an amazing residual reorder business. And my passion like you now, is helping other network marketing leaders do the same. So that's my story in a nutshell. Oh, thank you.
Helen: We have so much in common because I was actually in kind of buying for the clothing when I first graduated and very, very, had very small amount of time there.
But then I also had this. You know, a big business in the wedding industry as well. Like you and I know exactly what that feels like. I think a lot of listeners will be like, yes, we work so hard, we're so ambitious. We're driven. We want success. How do we make it work? We're sacrificing time with our family, and for lots of women, network marketing is, yeah, it's an option to get out of that or to give us the choice and flexibility then to maybe cut down a little bit on their, their full-time job or their day job.
and, and have this, this life that builds outside of that as they build their income. So what would you say to anybody getting started in network marketing? You know, the, perhaps doing some, doing this alongside another job, another life, you know, let's, you know that we've spoken before this podcast, you know, that I'm very much about being real and honest.
When people come into this industry, what would you say we need to really be saying to those new people who have busy lives outside of it? To make sure they, they're aware of what they're about to
Heather: embark on. Oh my goodness. Well, I love this question, and when I actually joined my company, it was in the midst of our busiest season.
I had a bridal shop and a boutique that focused on formal wear, special occasion prom, and of course my wedding dress shop. I, I sold wedding dresses. And January is, When I joined is by far the busiest month of the entire year, and so even though I didn't necessarily have hesitations in saying yes to my opportunity because I loved the product, I actually kind of had a hard time getting started because I, I had those same fears people have of putting myself out there on social media.
Maybe the stigma of, you know, what, what people might think about it and or if they thought, oh, well, is she doing this instead of the boutique? Or, you know, I had all those crazy thoughts that we have to where I kind of sat on it for a couple of weeks, but yet I kept having this persistent inspiration, if you will, to post a before and after of myself with the makeup and just share how I felt about it, which was that I loved it and just, you know, kind of put, put it out there in a way.
And so finally I remember I was like, okay, I'm. , I'm just gonna do it. And I don't, I had never really taken a selfie before, but I took a before and after , no makeup after makeup. And I put it out there and said, I love this makeup if you know, and here's why. And if you wanna try it, you know, let me, if you wanna be color matched, let me let me know.
And right from that get go, I was able to, Make my back my kit investment. Mm-hmm. I was able to, you know, kind of build on some of the connections and the relationships that I had built from having a business for, for as many years at that time, and that kind of jolt of confidence and, and kind of overcoming that fear even though it felt so unnatural at the time.
It was that fuel to the fire to kind of think like, okay, well what, what else, what else could I do and what, you know, what else could I kind of take on? And so I think that we, I know that. All have those fears, even if you're at, you know, the top leadership ranks of your company. Like when I started the podcast, I was scared for a long time.
I've had the inspiration for over a year before I finally dove in. And so, you know, I would encourage anyone who's just getting started. Definitely if you've g been given that little inspiration, that little whisper in, you know, in your ear of what to do, and you're not taking action because you're afraid.
Just do it because on the other side of that could be something, I just got chills. That could absolutely change your life as, as it did mine. Yeah, absolutely. I love
Helen: that. Thank you, Heather. It. It is an incredible industry with, you know, we all know what's possible, but it's, it's so important to be real, isn't it?
That it's gonna take time, it's gonna take effort and dedication and learning and constant improvement and investing in personal development and yourselves and coaching and all those kind of things you need to commit. And what would you say to somebody that is perhaps holding back on themselves with their ambition?
You and I are both ambitious women. We want success, but. It took me a long time to actually feel confident enough to stand up and, and say that to the world without feeling like people were going to judge me for being arrogant or over ambitious. Or would they think that, oh, with ambition comes a lack of sincerity or lack of kindness and empathy.
What would you say to people who are in business, in network marketing? Are fired up, but they're so afraid to show that like, because I know that is such a common thing, isn't it? We feel, what are friends and family gonna say? We've just started this new business. We're really excited about it. We want to have this success.
We can see what's possible, but I just wanna stay really small. So how do, how do we, how do we kind of overcome those fears of being. .
Heather: What a good question. So this, I've actually never shared this story on my podcast, and it, it just inspired me. I think I'm gonna have to do a whole episode to , you know, talk
Helen: at the juicy, juicy details.
Exclusive. I love it. .
Heather: It's, it's, it's juicy and it's, and it's one of those kind of, honestly, unearthing. Sort of a darker time within my, not just my network marketing journey, but in my, my life, if you will, and, and kind of the shame that's wrapped up in it. So as I mentioned, I've always been very ambitious, always.
I mean, my gosh, like go back to the age of my kids nine and 13, and I was, that was, that was who I am. That's who I was made to be. That's good. Yeah. , I remember back in, I think it was 20, it might have been late 2017, I attended our company's first leadership retreat and it was such a blessing. To be able to be there.
But I first learned about the Enneagram, and this might be a little controversial and I might not be going where, where you think or where the listeners think I'm going with this, but I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna go for it. So I first learned about the Enneagram and of course did the quiz, and I was a three which is the achiever for those who who don't know about the Enneagram.
And in that room of about 15, 18 of the top leaders, top sellers in our company, I was the only one who was a. and which first of all is kind of hard to believe, but anyways, it, it was the truth. And instead of me looking at that and, and thinking like, oh, well great, I'm a three. I like from that moment, and for honestly probably a year and a half, maybe even two years, I wound up feeling this, like almost deep shame around like.
Who I, that test told me that I was, if that makes sense. Yeah. Versus like who I knew myself to be the good, you know, the good, the bad and bad and all of those things. So I literally wound up in therapy, . Wow. Told part of that just a little tidbit on this story. My, my grandmother she passed 13 years ago, but she had left this bank account that I didn't even know anything about, and it was, I was looking into a coaching program actually, and it was almost exactly the same amount of money, and one of the things that the coach said was, you know, if you've got kind of issues that are tied, you know, this is a business coaching program.
If you've got some kind of mental things that are going on, this might not be the thing for you. And I decided to invest that money for my grandmother in seeing a therapist , to really dive into some of these deep seated kind of sh shame rooted feelings and thoughts that I had. around the negative aspects of being an achiever, because I am, I'm a believer, I'm a you know, I'm a, a Christian and so, you know, I am, you know, a believer in that the, you know, in the Lord and that he's in charge of all the things in our lives.
And so, because I was kind of deep in reading the word, I was reading things about selfish ambition, and I was attributing all the good aspects of who I am and all of the, you know, the, the positive sides of my ambition and wrapping it up into something that was selfish for me. And so that shame spiral was kind of, So coming on the other side of all of.
I can proudly say now. You know, I would call myself a recovering achiever because I don't really feel like that's what is inspiring me anymore. I think there were some facets of the bridle or the, the fashion industry that definitely leaned into that kind of selfish ambition or that kind of self-focused success of best this and in this magazine and featured here and all of that, and none of that.
anything, those awards? You know, to be honest, well, not that I was making that much money with that, but even the money, the ranks and network marketing, none of that is what we're really seeking. Instead, we're seeking fulfillment and it took going to therapy and really getting introspective and diving even deeper in the word for me to realize that this, the ambition.
is a part of who I am. And in order to best serve, not me, but serve my team, serve my followers, serve, listen to the podcast, I needed to embrace the fact that, that I'm strategy minded, that I love systems, that I love figuring out what's working for others so that I can either implement it myself or show someone else how to do it.
These are all gifts. That if I'm holding those gift, if I'm holding that back, then I'm not leaning into who I'm meant to be and I'm not honoring who I was made to be. And so that was, I, I know that was a little bit of a long story and, and a deep dive, but I'm actually still not a huge fan of the Enneagram for that reason, because I don't like for people to be put into a box because, you know, You can kind of, if you're not careful, get too wrapped up in that and the control aspects of it for yourself and for others.
So, long answer, Helen . I dunno if that's what you were looking for, but that's me. . Wow.
Helen: Oh, thank Heather. That was amazing because thank you for like giving us that whole deep story. It's so important to hear other women go through that. It's so, so common. I think not just the Enneagram or any kind of test or in general, we do put ourselves into boxes, don't we?
We like, this is who we're supposed to be. This is how I'm supposed to show up. I'm trying to define myself. Yet at the same time, there's inside. I'm a I, you know, I've done the test as well. I'm a three . I am this ambitious person. You know, how do I bring that out of myself? And this is something I talk about a lot on this podcast.
I'm so, so grateful that you did share your story there because the Millionaire Mindset woman is someone who has that confidence to be themselves 100% authentically out there in the world and show themselves. And you know, this is something that I want everyone to feel how. other than therapy, , how would you, which is so important.
If you have those deep seated issues, you must go and deal with them. I'm so glad you said that. How, how would you encourage women to find other ways to show up as themselves and be brave enough to be, to speak their truth, step into their power
Heather: of confide? Great question. So I really feel like you, you have to kind of get introspective and ask yourself some really great questions.
Specifically what lights you up, like what, what truly makes you come alive? Like what are the things, and like for example, actually you're gonna laugh when I say this, for me it's spreadsheets. I. Love a spreadsheet and produce spreadsheets and analyze data. And it's funny cuz I'm kind of known as that, as our company.
I'm like, the numbers, you know, the numbers are the stat lady, but that's what lights me up. And, you know, should every network marketer do that? Heck to the no. But if that's my gift and my superpower and it does light me up and I, it makes kind of like you said, I, I can't remember if it was on this podcast or the one we recorded for us, but you have to find the things that, that, that, that feel fun, to find joy in your business.
and when you could think about what are the things that you would do, like I'd rather do a spreadsheet and analyze data than watch Netflix, which I realize is probably very weird, but it's who I am. Mm-hmm. . And you know, again, I would rather learn about when I first started my network marketing business, going to that journey, I would look on YouTube.
I would watch trainings that other leaders had abundantly posted out there publicly in the world. And I would, would stalk them and I would say, well, what is she sharing with her team and what's working for them? Cuz she's reached the top of this company I did. And have worked with some incredible coaches to, you know, try to grow like, you know, the importance of personal development and, you know, to kind of grow myself as a person.
And so in that, I found the things that are inherently my, I don't wanna say superpowers, but the things that are inherently me and the things that light me up. And then I also, through my journey in network marketing and eventually, or initially trying to build a following online, realized what my superpowers were not.
And so for me, that is content creation. I you know, don't, that that is not something that, Feel really lights me up. It's not something, it's something I feel like I have to do, not something that I feel like I get to do or want to do. And it took me a really long time to realize that I was bringing that achiever energy into my Instagram kind of brand, if you will.
Not in a, not in a way that was like, how can I help you through my, my achievement, you know, my, my ambition ambitious self, but no, like, I was like using it. To kind of serve myself in my ambition and how many followers can I get and how many views and if I can get to the 10 K to get the swipe up at the time.
And, you know, all of those things like that was my mindset and that is not how you can show up online. You have to be passionate about that, providing valuable content. for that can change someone else's life. Mm-hmm. . And if you're coming at it from any other way, people can see right through it. Mm-hmm.
And I think that's actually why I struggled to build the type of, you know, following that I was going for is because people could see that I was trying to make it about me, not about how I could serve them. And so I shifted my focus. Onto, you know, again, finding out what I love. Leaning into to that, realizing that you don't have to do all the things if you try to, to do all the things as a leader especially as a network marketing leader, you're gonna fail.
Cuz you can't, you can't be all things to everyone. You can't be gifted in all the areas. And if you're trying to do it all yourself, you're not allowing your leaders. or the people around you to be able to come alongside you and grow together, you're, you're kind of leaned into that control and perfectionism like I was.
So I hope that that answers your question, that you've got to find what lights you up. Oh yeah, boy, does that answer
Helen: my question? That's amazing. Thank you. It's yeah, we all need the person on the team who is the comp plan expert because that's totally not me. You're so right. This, honestly, everything you said I absolutely love and it's.
you're clearly an incredible leader, allowing other people to step into their own limelight with their skills. And, you know, you're so right when, if we are trying to force ourselves into doing things that we're just not good at, I mean, I'm the exact opposite. I'm not the numbers girl, so, oh, it makes me feel ill.
I'm like, no, I need to outsource that somehow. I, I can't do that. And you can see through that. You need to find the joy. And we talked about this, didn't we? One of the things we both. Is both in our own businesses, finding the joy, but also more importantly, helping other people in this industry to find the joy in this industry.
That's what it's all about. I want everyone to be happy doing this job. I, you know, having this business because I don't want 'em to quit. I want to bring that statistic down of 99% of people in this industry quit before they hit six figures because we need to bring that right down, and that's by helping people like you.
To find the joy in their business and being authentically themselves and like, it, it, this is what it all comes down to, isn't it? It's just about having that confidence to be truly you. And that's how you're gonna best serve. You're so right, how you're gonna best serve your team, the industry, women in general helping to empower them as well.
So thank you for that. I just wanna ask you one more question. We'll, to touch on one last topic. That is about changing network marketing companies because both you and I have switched companies, and I think it's really important, again, in the, in the name of authenticity and integrity is to speak about that because a lot of people have, we'd never, either of us, neither of us would ever encourage people to, you know, we wouldn't ever poach anyone from a different company, but sometimes, as it was in my case, I knew I wasn't in the right place for me.
And that, again, that comes back to what's right for you. So I would love to get your take on the, the moving of companies because it's a huge thing. It was like a grieving process for me. It was completely unexpected. It wasn't what I expected to do, but at the time, it was a business decision. It worked out to be the best thing I've ever done, but it was about finding who I wanted to be and putting myself in a place that was right for me.
So I'd love to get your take on that as well,
Heather: Heather. I'm very happy to talk about this because if you are a leader in network marketing, or if you have ambitions to be a leader in network marketing, you no doubt are going to experience this on your team, and you might even, as you and I both have experienced it for yourself.
and you, you have to kind of manage your expectations to know what to do when, when, and if you come up on that, that situation. And so maybe I'll start with with if it's you and how, how, you know, if it's time to switch companies or you know, what, what that looks like. And it kind of goes back to again, what, what lights you up?
I loved my, both of the companies I was with were makeup companies. So that was a natural fit cuz I'd always loved beauty. I could spend hours in Sephora. And so that's kind of, again, who, what, what lit me up. But the, the first comp plan that was that and the, and the other company was a little bit more recruitment or enrollment focused.
And so we were compensated on having people purchase a kit. and I am the type of person that I'm like kind of an avoidant. I don't like to be pushy. In fact, that was the biggest skillset I had to learn in my network marketing business was actually talking about my opportunity with other people, . And so it was not a natural fit for me.
It came off really inauthentic when I was, you know, essentially trying to sign everybody and their brother up so that I could hit this rink in my company. Mm-hmm. . And so it fit into just like not the good parts of, of my, of my. My, my skillset. And so I only lasted there about six months. I actually did hit a higher rank in the company.
But I just, it, it, something just didn't sit right with me. So I didn't switch. It was a, probably, let's see, maybe two years later before I decided to join another company. And I was watching others. I was looking at, you know, the, the leggings, I was looking at, the you know, the other makeup companies that were out there that something just didn't, Site, sit with my, my, just who I was.
And so when, again, naturally for me, the products that I was already using and loving. Came into the market, I was like, well, this is a no-brainer cuz I understood the po the possibility. So for me, you know, I, I think it's clear, especially hindsight's 2020, that I am grateful that I have found a home that allows me to lean into my, my skillsets and my gifts.
And we don't have. We actually don't make a dime when someone buys a kit in the, in the company. So I know when I'm sharing about the product, it's if they'd be better off as a customer, then stay a customer. And so I can kind of lean, lean into that and, and it suits me with who I am. . So I think everybody has to first of all, be passionate about the product, whatever that is.
I'm not a big health and wellness person. I, you know, have and will try certain things that my friends and affiliate to them, like refer business back to my fellow network marketers. But it's not something I'm passionate about. It's not something I have a huge story around that I could share. So, you know, I know that's not my fit, but makeup.
Makeup I can do, but I realize not everybody's a makeup person. Not everybody is gonna feel confident creating content around teaching others how to simplify their makeup routine or, you know, they're, they're not gonna want to do those things or feel comfortable doing that. And so there are, there's a company out there for, for everybody, and you've got to find the one that you are passionate about, the product that aligns the comp structure aligns with your, you know, natural gifts and skill sets and kind of go for that.
Mm-hmm. . On the other side of that, you are gonna have people on your team that are gonna do the same thing. Mm-hmm. , they're gonna maybe not kind of jive with the way that the systems of how you. Onboard or you know, that how you bring on customers into your business. Like you're going to have people that it's just not a fit for them.
Maybe the product isn't something that they are loving, it's just it feels like forced for them to go out there and share their product. But guess what? If they find. Another comp plan. If they find another opportunity, maybe it is a, a, you know, a, a ground floor opportunity as as we, you know, see all the time in the industry, and they, they have to make that business decision as their family.
Then you have to embrace the fact that we all have to do what's best for who we are. Whether that's a business decision, whether it's a personal decision, hopefully it's again, a product that you, that you love and that you can really, really get behind. But I have had, actually, even recently, I've had a top leader that, that left you know, and, and went to another company and I reached out to her and I congratulated her because I knew her well enough to know I, we had connected enough that I knew it was a good fit for her.
And not that this was a bad fit for her, but this was a better fit. And so I was, I was very supportive of her, and I know we will remain friends. There's, you know, there's no hard feeling. and I, you know, likewise when people quit cuz they will, maybe network marketing isn't the right avenue for them and they will, I still have many friends that used to be on my team that I, you know, that I, that I'm with that probably may or may not do another network marketing company eventually.
And so you have to focus on the relationship first because fun fact actually had another leader that left, went to another ground, ground level opportunity in the us. , I connected with her. Well, she ranked very quickly there. I, you know, congratulated her on her success from a, a genuine place. She actually came back to.
And she about maybe six months after that, because it's same thing, even though she'd had success, it wasn't the right fit. So you never know. That's not the reason that you should ever do that. But putting the relationship first and realizing that as humans, we are, we, we again have those inspirations.
We're given every idea. We've given every contact. We're given those open doors. And sometimes if you don't take that opportunity to walk through them, especially if you think you're gonna let someone else down, you're not. You're not walking in that path of choosing faith over fear. And so we, we have to do it for ourselves.
We have to allow others to do the same. . I hope that answers your question. Yeah, absolutely.
Helen: Perfect. I could not agree more, and it's the sign of a great leader if you can let those people go, which will naturally happen, as you said in network marketing friendships first. It's just a job. That's how I've always thought.
It's just a business, you know, and I've always. Same as you always stayed in really great friends with great friends with, with everyone that's ever left. It's not always the way though, is it? So yeah, I love your approach on that. So I just wanted to say thank you so much, Heather. Where can people find you and connect with you if they wanna come and
Heather: say, hey?
Sure. So a funny fact, I'm actually not building on Instagram or Facebook anymore. I do still have an account, so you're welcome to hop over and actually you can watch my quick my last reel back in February where I share a little bit of the reason why I decided to step away from social media altogether.
And so you can find me at Heather. K Burge, b u r g e if, if you are on social media, which most people are and read a little bit about that journey, but they can go to my website, which is heather k burge.com and that is where they will find the link to my podcast. They will find I have a coaching programming course called Replicate Your Results, where I help network marketing leaders grow their income and impact beyond their own effort by choosing faith over.
Leaning into their, who they're meant to be and leveraging simple systems. Cuz again, I'm a strategist at heart. So that's essentially everything's all in a [email protected]. And of course you can listen to my podcast, the called to lead podcast. Oh, that sounds
Helen: fantastic. All of those resources sound amazing.
Thank you so much, Heather. I know the audience will have got so much outta that fascinating conversation, so I really appreciate your time and yeah, it's so great to connect with someone who feels exactly the same way. So thank you again, and thank you for sharing your wisdom with our listeners.
Heather: Thank you so much for having me, Helen.
I can't wait to stay in touch. Take care.
